Darn Non-Resident Hunters?!?

[Gcan]

I've seen it come up on a lot of threads and am so confused by this concept of "non-residents" being bad stewards of the land/resource (trash, disrespectful, bad sportsman, etc), YET most hunters hunt multiple states!! Does that mean they are perfect citizens in their own state, then complete degenerates in the non-res states??!!

Or maybe, bad apples are just that! I have family who hunt and live in a few other western states, and am in the field a lot Aug - Jan…..my brother and I alone have 7 hunts in 4 states this year. During all my time in the field, I have seen absolute no correlation between res and non-res with respect to being bad stewards, and again, for all those hunters that claim non-res people are the problem, I hope you are all looking in the mirror the next time you hunt outside your home state.

By the way, I'm the guy who will always welcome you into my camp to chat or have a beer, and genuinely want to support my fellow hunters. If you have a flat tire, I will offer to help. If you are in the camp next to me and are a slob, I'm going to stop on my way out to clean it up (and likely report you). AND, I'm a big believer in supporting the local small business owners (motels, super market, restaurants, gun stores, etc) and local guides/outfitters (when I am too busy with family or work to scout a new area).

IMO, I see this non res BS here and elsewhere a lot when residents are trying to justify changing res vs non res fees or allocations. But again, MOST hunters are both res and non res hunters, so I scratch my head. On this particular subject, I do think the actions of one (state) can ruin it for the rest of the states, so I do wish their was a 'Western State Alliance (equal representation from each state)' to set basic standards on allocation/etc……that way, no one feels like they can screw people for the sake another state did it (ie - change to 90/10 or worse b/c their residents have to deal with that as non-residents in the boardering/surrounding states)…..BTW, this isn't a 90/10 debate, just using as an example.

Good luck to all the res and non res hunters on your hunts this year and keep a look out for those bad apples!

In my experience, having hunted 5-10 states or provinces in some years, low moral hunters are just that. They disrespect their own states as much as any other. As to non res hunters taking or getting more, generally non res hunters pay 10-20 times the resident hunting lic fees yet are probably 20% as successful in taking game. Non res hunters are the ones who hire cousin billy bob to guide them, thus supporting countless of your resident neighbors. The money Non resident hunters bring to local hotels and restaurants keep many of those businesses open during the rest of the year so residents can eat and enjoy their communities. In my own state I spent $20 on a license and usually slept at home or at a friends. When I traveled it is not a stretch to say I spent $2000 to $10,000 in every state. Sometimes I spent considerably more. So when you hear someone moan bout out of state hunters ask them how much revenue they generate yearly and how much they positively impact the quality of hunting and fishing in your state. Ask them how many non residents own real-estate in their state just so they can hunt. Ask them how much money non resident land owners contribute to the tax base without ever using a single local service.

normally I just ask these people one simple question; "what is the opposite of above me"

 

[Mike Matteson]

I hunt a lot out of state. I haven't been into many camps site that were clean. We pick up all the trash and either burn it or bag it. Haul it out with us when we are going into town, or home, whatever works. The only thing you find from us is our tracks, fire pit, and possible some firewood left behind. More than likely the pit was there to start with. I don't try and create a new camp site either. I will use somebody else site that has left behind. I try and have maps of the areas to figure out what is private and what is public lands. I stay out or off of private lands unless it's okay. If I go into and area that the gate is closed, I closes it behind me. I have talked to cowboys that were rounding up cattle. The would tell me about a gate that should be closed. If I find it open please but it back up. I do that.
A lot of time I hunt in AZ. along the Mexico border. I keep and eye out anything that looks wrong. Let the Border Patrol know. Get a lic plate number too if I think sometime is right.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Won't even to begin to know how many tags I haven't filled. After a big one. Shot enough deer and it isn't much fun or work to do that. The big boys are the one hard to hunt, It takes time, and a lot of time and going home without. The HUNT IS WHAT COUNTS!

 

[Maverick254]

When you Pass through Rifle Co. Stop in at Shooters Grille. The place belongs to our GREAT Congress Woman.

Y'all have great representation! We could all use more like her. We usually stop for fuel in Rifle, so we will have to stop in at Shooters Grille.

 

[DartonJager]

As in all things in life 'IT DEPENDS"
Out west were there are 100K's of public land acres to hunt and being a non-resident can have a lesser affect on the residents as the non-res numbers are usually at least some what controlled. But in my old home state of IL and my home state of the last 19 years IN and most states west of the Mississippi non-residents competing with residents for public and private land access is a VERY real problem.
The only state west of the Mississippi I am aware of that has serious nonresident deer hunter controls is IA.
Most other states DNR's are utterly in-lust with $$$ generated from non-resident deer tags.

There are counties in IL where more land is leased by non-res and outfitters for hunts than is hunted by residents and I know this to be fact. And this was true way back in the late 1990's and early 2000's

I went from having access to about 1k private acres in the mid 80's to late 90's and buy the late 90's lost it all to mostly nonresident outfitters paying IMO insane prices to lease farms for bow only hunts. These mostly but not all nonresident outfitters again this IMO many were committing nothing short of fraud for what they were charging for 5 day hunts on very small areas of habitat that they were running hunter through 5 days a week beginning 3rd or 4th week of OCT until 3rd week pf November.

I know more than a few farmers caught leasing land they leased for farming but didn't own and leased out the hunting rights to both nonresidents as well as nonresident outfitters this was not an isolated problem.

I had one farm that was 295 acres, 100 acres was a near prefect rectangle of superb deer habitat the other 195 acres was un-huntable CRP. An outfitter from KY leased it from my land owner for NO BS God's honest truth $7.5k a year yes that's correct $7,500 per year for a 3 year lease 75% cash up front and this was in 1996 no less. Outfitter told my land owner he would make his money on the lease back in less than two weeks putting three bow hunters on the land per week, 1st 5 days for $2k each. The next 5 it went to $2200, pre-rut hunts were $2500, rut hunt week was at $2700 per hunter. I know this to be absolutely true because my land owner showed me a copy of the outfitters brochure.

This was not an isolated incident by any means. I witnessed MANY families brake up due to cousins, uncles and grand fathers leasing out land that their relatives had hunted for generations to outfitters or started outfitting operations themselves. My primary land owner and I had become very good friends in the almost 15 years I hunted his land and he wouldn't let even his own brother charge me to hunt, but very tragically he was killed in an auto accident. His children INSTANTLY formed an outfitting business called "Prairieland Whitetails" and 5 day bow non pre or rut hunts were $2300 and this was in 1997.

I had another 110 acre farm in Calhoun Co IL part of about 490 acres that got leased by an outfitter for $9.7K this was in 1995. In most counties in any state west of the Mississippi if you wish to hunt private land if you can even find any available, you will be leasing at $20-$40 an acre now.

Last year I hunted in IL I hunted Schuyler CO. and stayed in the Mt. Sterling hotel a relatively small Ma and Pa hotel and counted license plates from over 30 states besides IL including one from AK even.

I can only speak to IL and IN where I have done most of my hunting and nonresidents have had a IMO hugely negative impact on the availability of private land to residents.

Leasing reminds me of the fallowing great line from the movie "Wallstreet" The awful thing about money is the things it makes people willing to do to get it"

 

[Korhil78]

I have hunted in Arizona and Wyoming. I live in New Mexico and hunt here as well. I Havnt ever really had a problem with anyone where I have gone. That's because I always plan my hunts by getting way off the beaten path and hunting. Last hunt I did in New Mexico, I was 6 miles in from the trail head.

I do that just to get away from other hunters. When I'm on the road or doing stuff in town, I will help anyone that needs help and do it with respect for others. But when I'm hunting, I want to be way back in there. If I come across someone in the woods that needs help, of course I will help.

I think when I get too old to pack in miles, I will just take up fishing.

 

[bikerbowhunter]

Y'all have great representation! We could all use more like her. We usually stop for fuel in Rifle, so we will have to stop in at Shooters Grille.

The waitresses open carry handguns there

 

[WILLR]

Maybe every states should require a courteous and respect for others property !!!!! IF THEY DO NOT PASS NO HUNTING ..... This should be for everyone even in every day living.

 

[LRNut]

As in all things in life 'IT DEPENDS"
Out west were there are 100K's of public land acres to hunt and being a non-resident can have a lesser affect on the residents as the non-res numbers are usually at least some what controlled. But in my old home state of IL and my home state of the last 19 years IN and most states west of the Mississippi non-residents competing with residents for public and private land access is a VERY real problem.
The only state west of the Mississippi I am aware of that has serious nonresident deer hunter controls is IA.
Most other states DNR's are utterly in-lust with $$$ generated from non-resident deer tags.

There are counties in IL where more land is leased by non-res and outfitters for hunts than is hunted by residents and I know this to be fact. And this was true way back in the late 1990's and early 2000's

I went from having access to about 1k private acres in the mid 80's to late 90's and buy the late 90's lost it all to mostly nonresident outfitters paying IMO insane prices to lease farms for bow only hunts. These mostly but not all nonresident outfitters again this IMO many were committing nothing short of fraud for what they were charging for 5 day hunts on very small areas of habitat that they were running hunter through 5 days a week beginning 3rd or 4th week of OCT until 3rd week pf November.

I know more than a few farmers caught leasing land they leased for farming but didn't own and leased out the hunting rights to both nonresidents as well as nonresident outfitters this was not an isolated problem.

I had one farm that was 295 acres, 100 acres was a near prefect rectangle of superb deer habitat the other 195 acres was un-huntable CRP. An outfitter from KY leased it from my land owner for NO BS God's honest truth $7.5k a year yes that's correct $7,500 per year for a 3 year lease 75% cash up front and this was in 1996 no less. Outfitter told my land owner he would make his money on the lease back in less than two weeks putting three bow hunters on the land per week, 1st 5 days for $2k each. The next 5 it went to $2200, pre-rut hunts were $2500, rut hunt week was at $2700 per hunter. I know this to be absolutely true because my land owner showed me a copy of the outfitters brochure.

This was not an isolated incident by any means. I witnessed MANY families brake up due to cousins, uncles and grand fathers leasing out land that their relatives had hunted for generations to outfitters or started outfitting operations themselves. My primary land owner and I had become very good friends in the almost 15 years I hunted his land and he wouldn't let even his own brother charge me to hunt, but very tragically he was killed in an auto accident. His children INSTANTLY formed an outfitting business called "Prairieland Whitetails" and 5 day bow non pre or rut hunts were $2300 and this was in 1997.

I had another 110 acre farm in Calhoun Co IL part of about 490 acres that got leased by an outfitter for $9.7K this was in 1995. In most counties in any state west of the Mississippi if you wish to hunt private land if you can even find any available, you will be leasing at $20-$40 an acre now.

Last year I hunted in IL I hunted Schuyler CO. and stayed in the Mt. Sterling hotel a relatively small Ma and Pa hotel and counted license plates from over 30 states besides IL including one from AK even.

I can only speak to IL and IN where I have done most of my hunting and nonresidents have had a IMO hugely negative impact on the availability of private land to residents.

Leasing reminds me of the fallowing great line from the movie "Wallstreet" The awful thing about money is the things it makes people willing to do to get it"

I don't lease any land (either as a seller or buyer) but I disagree with your postulate that farmers "owe it to the locals" to allow hunting. It is their land; if they want to lease it, it is their right to do so. To succeed as a farmer you not only have to know agriculture, you must master the futures markets, optimize crop rotation/fertilizer/seed costs, be a good mechanic and a million other things. Earning money from hunting leases is another source of revenue and I wouldn't knock them for it.

I shoot PDs on a few alfalfa pivots; the rancher doesn't charge me, but if he did, I would gladly pay; it is cheaper than buying the land and taking care of it.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

A big area where I sometimes hunt elk has a few probably 3 familys that have been in the area since about the time Oregon got its statehood. Have to say these are some of the least pleasant people I have ever come across in the woods. They "own" that hillside, or drainage, or logging gate.

Every year there is a fight or slashed tires or threats involving one or multiple of these guys. Often law enforcement has to get involved. Its gotten to the point I dont hunt up there or go up with the expectation that I will be flexible. Being an *** in the woods isn't limited to where you are from.

 

[Pro2A]

I've seen it come up on a lot of threads and am so confused by this concept of "non-residents" being bad stewards of the land/resource (trash, disrespectful, bad sportsman, etc), YET most hunters hunt multiple states!! Does that mean they are perfect citizens in their own state, then complete degenerates in the non-res states??!!

Or maybe, bad apples are just that! I have family who hunt and live in a few other western states, and am in the field a lot Aug - Jan…..my brother and I alone have 7 hunts in 4 states this year. During all my time in the field, I have seen absolute no correlation between res and non-res with respect to being bad stewards, and again, for all those hunters that claim non-res people are the problem, I hope you are all looking in the mirror the next time you hunt outside your home state.

By the way, I'm the guy who will always welcome you into my camp to chat or have a beer, and genuinely want to support my fellow hunters. If you have a flat tire, I will offer to help. If you are in the camp next to me and are a slob, I'm going to stop on my way out to clean it up (and likely report you). AND, I'm a big believer in supporting the local small business owners (motels, super market, restaurants, gun stores, etc) and local guides/outfitters (when I am too busy with family or work to scout a new area).

IMO, I see this non res BS here and elsewhere a lot when residents are trying to justify changing res vs non res fees or allocations. But again, MOST hunters are both res and non res hunters, so I scratch my head. On this particular subject, I do think the actions of one (state) can ruin it for the rest of the states, so I do wish their was a 'Western State Alliance (equal representation from each state)' to set basic standards on allocation/etc……that way, no one feels like they can screw people for the sake another state did it (ie - change to 90/10 or worse b/c their residents have to deal with that as non-residents in the boardering/surrounding states)…..BTW, this isn't a 90/10 debate, just using as an example.

Good luck to all the res and non res hunters on your hunts this year and keep a look out for those bad apples!

My experience has been consistently....Once a slob; always a slob. At home, or away.

 

[spin-one]

I have upland game hunted in WI, MN, SD, IA and MT. I have hunted big game in WI, MN, CO and MT. My experience has been that non residents are overall law abiding and appreciate the opportunity to hunt in other states. My experience with hunters that don't behave as good sportsman have been local residents and they are by far not the norm.

 

[Muledeerhuntingfreak]

I don't know about anybody else but me as a person when I go out of state from Washington i to Idaho or Montana I am most respectful of that state that I'm hunting in there are more dirtbags bags from their own state that are disrespectful and trash everything . the out of state hunters they want to come back They don't want to be kicked out or caught doing something wrong in order for them to never be allowed to hunt again in the state They are hunting Yeah there is a few rotten apples out there but that doesn't mean everybody is!!!!!!

 

[Treeslug]

"HUNTERS WELCOME" Hey, why don't y'all all come down to south Texas. That is where we keep our biggest and best deer. But you had better stay in camp and keep your eyes on everything you own. It is no longer out-of-state hunters we have to worry about; it is out-of-COUNTRY, fence cutting, sheep and goat and cow killing, border crossing people from everywhere in the world that we have to deal with these days. It seems they are no longer satisfied with leaving their trash, and sometimes their dead bodies, now they steal everything that ain't nailed down, and even some of that. How about enjoying a group of about fifty of those folks tromping through your hunting area all day and night long just for grins? And it could be coming to a state you hunt in.