Cutting Edge Bullets

[Overkill338]

I would like to run them more at 16-1600fps out of a 357 sig

Underwood 125 Gold Dot, averages 1527 fps from my Glock 32.

 

[Overkill338]

Only snake oil I see in this thread is bullets that magically know when they reach the other side and put on the brakes to stop and release their "energy dump". Campfire lore and marketing hype that has no basis in fact or science.

If you can't figure out the concept, then no amount of explaining can help you. The bullet is supposed to dump energy as it expands to disrupt the vitals. Go shoot a deer with a 55gr FMJ, and see if it drops in its tracks, because that is what you are basically saying. When you get lucky, and it's just shy of exiting, then that bullet gave everything it had to give. I never said the bullets were magic and knew where to stop. That's just troll talk trying to get another thread locked.

If you don't understand this time, I will get some Crayons and draw you a picture book. Maybe then you can understand physics and science.

 

[5.56×250]

They may not be impressed, but you are more likely to get a bang flop with 3000 ft/lbs,, than you are 1000, because the energy is part of the equation that causes hydrostatic shock. Yet if the bullet isn't I'm the correct location, it doesn't matter if you have 5000 ft/lbs.

You mean to tell me all those old stories of deer hearts exploding from concussion in the blood stream from a high foot shot with high speed magnums was lies and propaganda!? Say it ain't so

 

[Overkill338]

You mean to tell me all those old stories of deer hearts exploding from concussion in the blood stream from a high foot shot with high speed magnums was lies and propaganda!? Say it ain't so

I had a nephew that shot a doe, perfect broad side shot with a 7-08. Bullet didn't open up correctly and passed through, both lungs and heart hit. Yet the bullet still had enough energy it hit another doe he didn't see standing behind it. Had to track the first one 100 yards or so. The 2nd one went 300+. Bullet failure, no hydrostatic shock, you are taking a walk.

I really don't understand why everyone wants to start an argument with me. If you like those gimmicky *** bullets, then by all means, use them. I didn't say anything bad about people using them, nor call someone a moron for it. I just said they are snake oil, pure gimmick. Fragmenting bullets are great for defense in the home, it for hunting, give me a Partition, Accubond, or even a Game King.

 

[yorke-1]

If you can't figure out the concept, then no amount of explaining can help you. The bullet is supposed to dump energy as it expands to disrupt the vitals. Go shoot a deer with a 55gr FMJ, and see if it drops in its tracks, because that is what you are basically saying. When you get lucky, and it's just shy of exiting, then that bullet gave everything it had to give. I never said the bullets were magic and knew where to stop. That's just troll talk trying to get another thread locked.

If you don't understand this time, I will get some Crayons and draw you a picture book. Maybe then you can understand physics and science.

What science do you have to really quantify your claims on the "energy dump" theory? Is it just anecdotal evidence or do you have actual data/numbers? Do you have a background in physics, wound trauma or terminal ballistics that would help you properly interpret that data if you did have it?

Bullets don't kill through "shock and awe" or energy dumps; they kill by causing permanent damage to vital tissue. Your suggestion that shooting a deer with a 55gr FMJ is the same as shooting a deer with an expanding bullet like a CE (or Hammer) shows a lack of real world knowledge on the subject. The permanent wound cavity caused by a 55gr FMJ is nothing like the cavity caused by an expanding bullet or even non expanding flat nosed bullet like a hard cast WFN bullet used in handguns and lever actions. The bullet shank which penetrates on after the nose petals break off on a CE (or Hammer) bullet has a flat nose profile (like the WFN hard cast) and continues to create a significant permanent wound cavity while penetrating through the target.

There's plenty of studies done by wound trauma experts which explains the effectiveness of temporary wound cavities (caused by "energy dump style bullets) compared to permanent wound cavities (caused by penetrating style bullets). The research is all out there and it would be beneficial for all hunters to read and understand that information which is provided by trained and knowledgeable experts and not just "some guy" off the internet or the marketing department of a manufacturer.

 

[bigngreen]

Man, my chest waders are way to short for this one, holy cow, where does this BS come from. OP, please don't let your kids drinks the water, it's to late for you but think of the kids, something is bad wrong with it!!!

 

[Overkill338]

A common misconception when witnessing game collapses at the moment the bullet impacts is that the force of the projectile has physically knocked the animal to the ground. We tend to call this an instant kill. Newton's law suggests that for every force there is an equal and opposite force. To this end the force of the bullet impacting game is no greater than the recoil of the rifle. So what causes the instant collapse or poleaxe as it is often caused?

Instant collapse occurs when the central nervous system (CNS) is damaged or electrically disrupted as a result of one of two mechanisms, either direct or indirect contact.

Direct contact refers to a bullet directly striking and destroying one of the major nerve centers, including the thoracic and cervical vertebrae, the brain or the autonomic plexus, regardless of velocity, this will result in instant death.

Indirect contact refers to the effects of a high velocity bullet imparting its energy, creating a hydrostatic shock wave. In terminal ballistics, the terms hydraulic shock and hydrostatic shock both refer to kinetic energy transferred as shock waves through flesh, however, each term describes different results.

Hydraulic shock is the civil engineers term also known as water hammer but in terminal ballistics context refers to the pressure of accelerated fluid particles that create the temporary wound channel.

Hydrostatic shock transfer refers to the effect when shock waves travel through flesh to distant nerve centers, disrupting their ability to emit electrical impulses.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

 

[BoomFlop]

Overkill338,

A Partition is a good bullet, so are a lot of bullets if placed properly. There is no perfect bullet in all situations.

Your comments about getting members crayons is pretty inappropriate, especially after the last thread that dealt with that kind of discrimination. I'd suggest acting your age and be a little more tasteful in your replies.

Steve

 

[Overkill338]

What science do you have to really quantify your claims on the "energy dump" theory? Is it just anecdotal evidence or do you have actual data/numbers? Do you have a background in physics, wound trauma or terminal ballistics that would help you properly interpret that data if you did have it?

Bullets don't kill through "shock and awe" or energy dumps; they kill by causing permanent damage to vital tissue. Your suggestion that shooting a deer with a 55gr FMJ is the same as shooting a deer with an expanding bullet like a CE (or Hammer) shows a lack of real world knowledge on the subject. The permanent wound cavity caused by a 55gr FMJ is nothing like the cavity caused by an expanding bullet or even non expanding flat nosed bullet like a hard cast WFN bullet used in handguns and lever actions. The bullet shank which penetrates on after the nose petals break off on a CE (or Hammer) bullet has a flat nose profile (like the WFN hard cast) and continues to create a significant permanent wound cavity while penetrating through the target.

There's plenty of studies done by wound trauma experts which explains the effectiveness of temporary wound cavities (caused by "energy dump style bullets) compared to permanent wound cavities (caused by penetrating style bullets). The research is all out there and it would be beneficial for all hunters to read and understand that information which is provided by trained and knowledgeable experts and not just "some guy" off the internet or the marketing department of a manufacturer.

My reference to the 55 fmj, was simply showing dumped energy vs wasted energy. Read the article I just posted link to. You can shoot a deer broadside with a handgun, and it will die after it runs and loses all its blood. Same situation with a large rifle, you get the "bang-flop", because the hydrostatic shock disrupts the organs and central nervous system. It never even knows it was injured. I'm sorry some of you are offended.

 

[Overkill338]

Overkill338,

A Partition is a good bullet, so are a lot of bullets if placed properly. There is no perfect bullet in all situations.

Your comments about getting members crayons is pretty inappropriate, especially after the last thread that dealt with that kind of discrimination. I'd suggest acting your age and be a little more tasteful in your replies.

Steve

Boom, I've explained the same situation many times now, and it really seems like I need to draw pictures. It is extremely frustrating.

 

[Overkill338]

Overkill338,

A Partition is a good bullet, so are a lot of bullets if placed properly. There is no perfect bullet in all situations.

Your comments about getting members crayons is pretty inappropriate, especially after the last thread that dealt with that kind of discrimination. I'd suggest acting your age and be a little more tasteful in your replies.

Steve

I took it out, but the point still stands. If a bullet doesn't relieve itself of most of it's energy, you don't get a hydrostatic disruption of the CNS, and you will be tracking that animal. Then people like Big green, make stupid replies, not realizing how bad they make themselves look. I can't help that I'm right and it ****es him off.

 

[bigngreen]

Energy means BUMPKIS, I can't count how many times I've seen an elk have the spine shocked by a near miss and it drops them after a few seconds it's dragging it's self then it gets it back end back under it and then all of the sudden your back to a fully functional elk because someone though energy was permanent reliable thing, never seen one recover from a 4 inch hole blown through it's lungs from parts of the bullet mechanically shredding it!!
Your comparing testing with a pistol bullet compared to a rifle bullet on big game, I honestly don't understand how someone can make any leap to how any data from one is relevant to the other!!

 

[yorke-1]

I took it out, but the point still stands. If a bullet doesn't relieve itself of most of it's energy, you don't get a hydrostatic disruption of the CNS, and you will be tracking that animal.

Please cite your source for the research backing up this statement.

 

[BoomFlop]

Overkill338

I don't believe you are right or wrong. The debate of fragmenting bullets that leave all the energy in an animal versus penetration (2holes) will go on forever.

You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. No pictures needed. Maybe an open mind that there are different opinions of yours will result in more meaningful content.

Steve