Custom Rifle accuracy expectations??

[SBruce]

Thanks Richard, that does kinda confirm my expectations. A good barrel should shoot moa quite easily.

I'd thought maybe since one is a magnum that it was possibly having an adverse affect. So I modified my bench shooting technique to "holding the gun" instead of shooting free recoil.........unfortunately, still getting some groups that are 2-3 minute with mostly horizontal on calm days, so the change in shooting style didn't produce any measurable improvement, at least not at 200 yds.

 

[pressman]

Bruce,
in my opinion something is wrong, and it is probably in the barrel. Nothing is perfect every time. Yes you did buy good components, but even then every once and awhile one bad one will slip out. I would just stop all of the frustration and wasting powder and bullets you have done more then enough to prove your point and take it back to the Smith and tell him your results. He too should be surprised and want to find out what is causing this. If he is not surprised... well i personally would go get another smith for the next project. This is just my opinion.

 

[J E Custom]

Question?
What contour are the barrels on the two that won't shoot? I use lighter weight barrel contours than most use for their LRH rifles on this Forum. Like #3 and #4 contour barrels. And I find it does take more load development than others seem to describe with their heavier contoured barrels.

But I've read quite a few Kirby Allen posts, and his experiences with the customs coming out of his shop is similar to your expectations. Very little load development necessary to get the heavier barreled customs to shoot 1/2 moa or less. Often, he reports that the first load he tries will demonstrate 1/2 moa accuracy.

Trying to get 1/4 moa? I think that might require some more load development.

But with the efforts you've described invested in the 300 WSM already (even if it's got a lighter weight contour), I would be sending that one back to the smith, and asking him to demonstrate better accuracy. And to consider the possibility of something gone awry. Just my thoughts.

+1

I find the same thing . Lighter barrels require more load develoupment most of the time than
heaver barrels. This does not mean that light barrels won't shoot, just that they are more sensitive
to Bullet weight and re loader componants.

It is a shame that a build goes bad but it does happen . I personally have had one that I would not
give up on and had loaded over 300 different loads. (Hard Headed) trying to come up with something
exceptable.

After taking it apart, I discovered what was wrong. It had a bad barrel and a terrible fluting Job.
I changed barrels and blueprinted the action my self and now it is one of the best shooters I have.

I To recomend that you let the smith have a chance to make it right and put a new barrel on it
because most barrel makers are interested in the quality and reputation of there barrels and
will work with him to fix your rifle.(If he sends the barrel back, they will test it and if it got
through quality control out of spec. they will replace it at no cost to the Smith.

One observation though that might help you is = If the rifle is stringing vertical or horizontal
it may not be the barrel. Most of the time it if bedding or trigger control.

If a barrel shoots loose groups in a round pattern It is bullet related or a poor quality barrel.

Again; sorry you are having this trouble.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Boss Hoss]

Edited

 

[ken snyder]

Yes take them back. quite a few smiths have a good enough reputation with their pet barrel manufacturer to take them seriously [ buy enough Barrels ]. Assuming that it is the barrel with defect. Take a good look at parts manufacturers guarantees and then read the guarantee again. WHERE IS AN ACTUAL SINGLE PART GUARANTEE AVAILABLE FOR ACCURACY. Is a guarantee that a part is capable of accuracy X a guarantee that it will? Its sad to read about bad luck, particularly since I recently canibalized a 1917 that Ive had for over 40 yrs because it was starting to shoot as good as your description of yours

 

[ken snyder]

Yes take them back. quite a few smiths have a good enough reputation with their pet barrel manufacturer to take them seriously [ buy enough Barrels ]. Assuming that it is the barrel with defect. Take a good look at parts manufacturers guarantees and then read the guarantee again. WHERE IS AN ACTUAL SINGLE PART GUARANTEE AVAILABLE FOR ACCURACY. Is a guarantee that a part is capable of accuracy X a guarantee that it will? Its sad to read about bad luck, particularly since I recently canibalized a 1917 that Ive had for over 40 yrs because it was starting to shoot as good as your description of yours

 

[SBruce]

Thanks guys,

This smith has a 1/2 minute accuracy potential gaurantee on his stuff. I'll be sending it back as soon as we work out the details of shipping, re-testing, and if he wants it back clean or as is with scope mounted.?

After shooting some last night, I am now convinced that it isn't my shooting. Another guy couldn't get under 1 moa with the "recommended" load either. I then took two other customs and shot some 1/4 to 1/2 minute groups with them at twice the distance........one of them was the first time ever on paper for me, using the smith recommended load. The other doesn't seem picky and will shoot sub 1/2 minute at 400 with just a random picked fireform load all day long........it seems to shoot just about anything, even cheap factory ammo, under moa consistantly and easily.

Something is definately amiss with the 300 WSM, and probably with the 22-250 also, but it's on the back burner for now.

Thanks again, and I'll re-post once I get the gun back.

 

[SBruce]

Just an update,

I sent the gun back, and the smith tested again with his proven scope and 3 scope rings (initial thoughts were that the scope was possibly slipping in the rings due to magnum recoil/muzzle break ect on a 9# rifle). He tested with a few different loads also.

His results were unimpressive for the most part, and he's concluded that it's a barrel issue. He believes the barrel is very sensitive to temp changes and it needs to be replaced.

Hopefully Lilja will stand behind this and send him a good replacement, if not; we'll be putting another brand of barrel on this iron.

 

[SBruce]

Deleted, site was giving me hell for a moment, but all is ok now.

 

[Pdvdh]

Just an update,

I sent the gun back, and the smith tested again with his proven scope and 3 scope rings (initial thoughts were that the scope was possibly slipping in the rings due to magnum recoil/muzzle break ect on a 9# rifle). He tested with a few different loads also.

His results were unimpressive for the most part, and he's concluded that it's a barrel issue. He believes the barrel is very sensitive to temp changes and it needs to be replaced.

Hopefully Lilja will stand behind this and send him a good replacement, if not; we'll be putting another brand of barrel on this iron.

SBruce,
Been looking forward to your update. Sounds like your suspicions were confirmed by the gunsmith, and you're on the path to corrective measures.

 

[captacademy]

What a nightmare you went through, I can only guess how that must have frustrated you, all that time and energy! Glad to hear you're going to get a new barrel. I hope this one is a shooter, but I don't think the smith will send it to you until it's proven!

 

[SBruce]

What a nightmare you went through, I can only guess how that must have frustrated you, all that time and energy! Glad to hear you're going to get a new barrel. I hope this one is a shooter, but I don't think the smith will send it to you until it's proven!

Absolutely a PITA. 2 out of 5 new custom guns have given me hell in the accuracy dept. I mean sometimes 5 or 6" groups at 200 yds! No way to develop a load for something like that. Perhaps coincidence, but both are Lilja barrels, and both supposedly shot world class the first group or two down the tube. When stuff like this happens, it takes a ton of time to troubleshoot optics and screws and loads and barrel cleaniness and makes a guy start to think he can't shoot for Sh!# anymore. I've spent so much time trying to troubleshoot these two, that I've gotten very very little done with the ones that DO shoot good. Thankfully, the ones that do shoot good aren't picky about ammo and are immediately usable.

He said "I will keep you posted and we will get this corrected one way or another". He's got some Hart barrels in stock if Lilja won't stand behind this one. Hart used to be a top name in barrels, I can only assume they are still good.? I too am sure he will iron out any issues before sending this back to me. I'd assume he'll break it in and shoot it enough to know for sure that it is 100% GTG, this can't be a pleasant experience for a reputable gunsmith either. They stand alot to lose with unhappy customers running around.

Thanks for the replies, and I have no doubt that this smith will get this all resolved and I'll end up with a great rifle. It's gonna add more time to what was already a two year wait, but I'd rather wait and have something great than have something unreliable and suspect that I have no confidence or faith in.

 

[Pdvdh]

Absolutely a PITA. 2 out of 5 new custom guns have given me hell in the accuracy dept. I mean sometimes 5 or 6" groups at 200 yds! No way to develop a load for something like that.

I feel your pain. Your experience just reinforces my own experiences with rifles or bullets that won't shoot. I'll switch to a couple of different bullets, but I won't spend much time trying to tweak a lemon into a shiny apple. Back towards the beginning of this thread you asked a question which is at the core of this matter. Rifles that are shooters will tend to shoot lots of different loads very well. Sometimes they're finicky about individual bullets. But if I have to fight to get a rifle to shoot 1 1/2 moa, I won't fight with it for very long.

Hope this rifle puts a big smile on your face when all is said and done. You deserve that after all you've been through. To H_ll and now hopefully back.

As far as Hart barrels go, I think they are a very good quality barrel. Amongst a number of top of the line brands of barrel manufacturers. Shawn Carlock was using them for a lot of his builds, if I remember correctly. He may still be. And your gunsmith isn't likely to take any chances on anything less than a proven performer at this point in time.

 

[NesikaChad]

If your smith does his part, the rifle will do its.

Examples:

338 Edge:

6mm Long Dasher:

308 Winchester: