Copper vs Conventional Bullets

[Lahunter76]

OK, guys yall have made me focus more on getting set up on my reloading equipment vs allocating funding atm towards a better scope(vx3 4.5-14x50 leupold to a vx5hd 3-15x56 leupold). SO in my research and yalls guidance.....the hammer bullets have peaked my intrest due to the know freebore in my Mark V 300 wby mag, and the fact that they do not seem to be as sensitive to seating depth or at all according to hammer.....I had planned on using Berger bullets due to i have never really understood copper bullets and was concerned at how they performed on game vs say the Berger VLD or Hybird. I think that due to the copper density vs lead, I will not be able to shoot as heavy of a bullet due to the extra length copper bullets have over conventional But in turn I will get faster MV. I guess my issue is that TO ME(ignorant) that the copper bullets are better perpetrators but do not expand or cause as much dmg as a conventional bullet....is this reasonable thinking? ALSO...i have no doubt they are both GREAT bullets and GREAT companies so i am not debating which is better necessarily, just how they compare...if that makes since. Thanks and sorry for such long post, lol....this forum and me researching this is like crack and i love others opinions.

 

[Bravo 4]

I have never been a fan of monolithic bullets, having only used Barnes and Cutting Edge. They just did not perform on game the way cup and core bullets did. So far I have been impressed with the Hammers, having only used them this year and on a handful of game. I load them for several rifles in several chamberings, belonging to a few buddies and myself. After a few deer and a couple elk, I will definitely stay with them. Load development has been super easy in everything I've shot them in, and they are very accurate. The Bergers do have a big advantage in BC, but that is it....well maybe cost.

 

[birdiemc]

My brother in law and father in law were just debating this very issue at Christmas, so old man goes out to the garage and comes back with a gallon ziplock bag of bullets recovered from animals and drops them in his lap, everything from 22caliber to 44 caliber (if I remember correctly). These were barnes TSX, and every single one we looked at was the picture perfect 4 petals double the size of the caliber with razor sharp edges. And knowing the crowd of shooters they came from and the places they hunt I cant imagine any of the shots were more than 120 yards. I'm pretty darn cheap but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna load up some of the TTSX now and if I can somehow convince myself to quit being so cheap I'll even try the hammers

 

[Elkeater]

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/hammer-bullets.211476/

Here's a thread. I'm sold on the hammers.

 

[yorke-1]

I think there was a time when the monometal bullets were a little unpredictable, but the newer designs and alloys have made significant improvements. I haven't personally seen an issue with Barnes TTSX bullets failing to expand but I know lots of people believe it's an issue. I've yet to see a Hammer bullet that didn't expand in the velocity window that they recommend. The trick is to be sure that the bullet is properly stabilized. In my experience, under stabilized bullets don't give reliable expansion. Since the monometal bullets require a faster twist than a cup and core bullet of the same weight, it's easy to inadvertently under stabilize them. I think this has a lot to do with the bad reputation that some bullets get.

As far as tissue damage goes, I've shot a fair number of different Hammer bullets into different test media and they've all done as much damage (or more) than a cup and core bullet at similar impact velocities. I actually shot skunk with a 130gr Sledge Hammer out of a 6.5 Grendel a while back just because the opportunity presented itself. The impact velocity was probably around 2300-2350 fps but the expansion was so violent that you'd have though I hit it with a varmint bullet from a fast 22 centerfire. That's not to say that the bullet "blew up", but it did open up quickly in a very soft/small target. A lot of times a big game hunting bullet won't expand like that with a lower impact velocity like I had.

I don't have anything bad to say about the Barnes bullets and they've always worked well for me. As I use up the last of my Barnes bullets though I'm replacing them with the Hammers. The Hammers are just easier to load for and I'm getting higher velocities (50-75 fps on average) compared to all the other hunting bullets I shoot. They're a little pricey to use for target bullets and they don't have the BC of something like a Berger, but I really don't think those are serious issues. A box of 100 bullets will give you plenty to find a good load (less than 20 shots), practice at longer range to get your drops dialed in (60 shots), then 20 left to hunt with.

 

[rgvt4]

I've shot 1 elk and 3 mule deer with 165 gr ttsx in my 300 wsm all the deer were DRT. The elk took 10 steps and fell over. All within 200 yards.

 

[odoylerules]

What is the minimum velocity for full expansion on game with monolithics like Hammers? Is it 1800fps like most bullets?

 

[bigngreen]

It's really hard to make a case of copper vs all other bullets, even different copper bullets react differently and have different design characteristics that make them as different as a cup and core, within the cup and core line up you have a plethora of differences as well.
I've shot a lot of Barnes, like a religion I shot Barnes, after seeing some very startling evidence during some elk culling hunts I will never shoot them on elk again, deer I'll still use them sometime, coyotes, antelope but elk never again.

Cutting Edge shot all my game with them for two years, shot almost every animal twice due to small wound channels, suffered from some of the Barnes issues but not all.

Shot probably a half box or a little more of Hammers through game, one elk I shot twice just because the opportunity was there to shoot an elk that was dead on its feet already with a shot from shoulder to hip so test them. WAY more lethal than either a Barnes or Cutting edge, WAY more!!

The Barnes bullet on elk is what made me start looking for other options which lead to Accubonds which took me to Bergers, I shot both Accubonds and Bergers for two years and it was noticeable quickly that any tipped bullet that opened early I lost more meat with, I also ended up shooting a number of bonded bullet hit elk with a Berger but never the other way around. Soon I shot mostly Bergers or Matrix bullets and seen many hundreds of elk killed with them with so few issues it's had to ignore!

I tend to rank bullets by the order I need them to function, first they have to be accurate, then lethality, then meat damage and then I try to get the best ballistics while balancing all the others.
For me I have had nothing but awesomeness from Bergers, I always shoot the heaviest for cal bullets though so I don't think the entire line is good in anything and they really need matched to the chambering.
Very similarly the Hammers have been excellent in the mono design line, they don't have the issues of overly large frontal area early causing penetration issues, they loose frontal area making large frag for extreme damage and large wound channels through the vitals and they maintain the shank in a way that continues on track crushing bone. The Hammers are the ONLY mono I have not gotten to deflect when smoking an elk in the point of the shoulder which really impressed me, also the damage from the petals causing a lot more damage in the core of the animal vs the entrance is much more impressive than any other mono.
Hammer hands down easiest mono to tune to shoot, Bergers I have no issues tuning but I do a lot of them so it's almost see spot run, I really don't see an advantage personally but for many they will find the Hammer a relief!
Hammers and Bergers are my go to bullets, their accurate and lethal!!