Copper Monos - How to choose the right weight(and maybe caliber)?

[WYO300RUM]

Following this thread for future reading.

I've shot hammers, Lehigh's, makers, cutting edge, tsx, ttsx, lrx, gmx, and lastly CX. Oh and nosler e-tip.

In my experience through 5 calibers 4 rifles and all the monos above there hasn't been one bullet that is consistently accurate for me. Meaning they're the same as lead, some rifles just don't like some bullets. Solid bullets seem to take that a step farther as far as finicky-ness. The tsx and now the CX have been top performers accuracy wise. Then Lehigh and hammer. Then the rest in a pile...

Really liking the 139 and 150 CX lately in my 28 nosler.

I have no opinion about terminal performance, I do have a far amount of empirical data and expensive lessons learned.

All I can say is get yourself some freebore and a quick twist rate. The bullets get long, they like jumping to the lands, and spinning extra fast.

Wish me luck I got California's G1 this year...


P. S. Building a lead based target rifle to step away from mono madness for a while.

Good luck in G1. I drew X12 last year. Used a 6.5 PRC with a 124 Hammer. This year got a point.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

Good luck in G1. I drew X12 last year. Used a 6.5 PRC with a 124 Hammer. This year got a point.

Yea, I get 3 days in tehama wildlife area. Hoping the weather cooperates. I'm building a 6.5 prc and have a stack of hammers I hope to put to good use.

 

[WYO300RUM]

That's awesome ! Hope no fires or hot weather. Smoke was bad last year when I went. When is opening day ? X12, X9A, X9B always around 9/18 - 9/20 or so. I got good results with RL23 w/124 Hammer in 6.5 PRC.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

That's awesome ! Hope no fires or hot weather. Smoke was bad last year when I went. When is opening day ? X12, X9A, X9B always around 9/18 - 9/20 or so. I got good results with RL23 w/124 Hammer in 6.5 PRC.

Opens 10/20 through 10/30 and I can access twa the last 3 days.

I have a hard time finding the reloder powders. Retumbo comes around sometimes. I have us 869, magpro, and a various assortment of others I hope can get me on target.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Opens 10/20 through 10/30 and I can access twa the last 3 days.

I have a hard time finding the reloder powders. Retumbo comes around sometimes. I have us 869, magpro, and a various assortment of others I hope can get me on target.

I haven't seen RL23 or 26 in long time . I saw some RL22 about 2 months ago. Do you have any H1000 ? I think Retumbo and 869 will be too slow. N560 or 565. Or IMR 7977.

 

[StumpyJohnson]

I haven't seen RL23 or 26 in long time . I saw some RL22 about 2 months ago. Do you have any H1000 ? I think Retumbo and 869 will be too slow. N560 or 565. Or IMR 7977.

I have h4831,imr 4831, 4831sc, 4350, 4064, superformance, maybe some others here and there. Might try some shooters world powders or take a gift basket over to the local miwall guys and try to get a bro deal on some h1000. I hear that's the stuff.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I have h4831,imr 4831, 4831sc, 4350, 4064, superformance, maybe some others here and there. Might try some shooters world powders or take a gift basket over to the local miwall guys and try to get a bro deal on some h1000. I hear that's the stuff.

Bro deal I have superformance but haven't tried in 6.5 PRC. Might work well. Maybe H4831 ? Maybe 4350 ? Is it H4350 ? H1000 works well with a lot of cartridges .

 

[Hard rock]

Bro deal I have superformance but haven't tried in 6.5 PRC. Might work well. Maybe H4831 ? Maybe 4350 ? Is it H4350 ? H1000 works well with a lot of cartridges .

Stumpy if your loading the 6.5 PRC ,with the 124 gr Hammers ,H1000 will work but you will do better with a burn rate equivalent too rl26 N560 rl23 N165 and H4831 SC of the powders you listed try H4831SC and standard LR primers , you should achieve 3300 too 3400 fps with a 24 too 26in barrel. N560 and N165 is the powders km using in the 109 gr 123 gr 124 gr and the131 gr Hammers . cartridge 6.5x55 -6.5-284 -and 6.5 Prc .

 

[StumpyJohnson]

Stumpy if your loading the 6.5 PRC ,with the 124 gr Hammers ,H1000 will work but you will do better with a burn rate equivalent too rl26 N560 rl23 N165 and H4831 SC of the powders you listed try H4831SC and standard LR primers , you should achieve 3300 too 3400 fps with a 24 too 26in barrel. N560 and N165 is the powders km using in the 109 gr 123 gr 124 gr and the131 gr Hammers . cartridge 6.5x55 -6.5-284 -and 6.5 Prc .

I was able to get some n165, I have some h4831,h4831sc, and even some 60's era surplus 4831 I'm toying with trying.

I appreciate your input and I have a fairly good assortment of hammer bullets in a few weights. Albeit in small quantities.

I'm doing a rifle build challenge and everything has to land under $1500, so I need to be pretty efficient and economic about my reloading. I'll end up bringing my press to the range to be honest. Its makes it easier to drill down on the best options fast.

I appreciate the input and leads. It's a new cartridge to me and all the info will give me an edge on these swine (friends) I'm competing against. Ssshhh, they may be watching.

 

[Hard rock]

I was able to get some n165, I have some h4831,h4831sc, and even some 60's era surplus 4831 I'm toying with trying.

I appreciate your input and I have a fairly good assortment of hammer bullets in a few weights. Albeit in small quantities.

I'm doing a rifle build challenge and everything has to land under $1500, so I need to be pretty efficient and economic about my reloading. I'll end up bringing my press to the range to be honest. Its makes it easier to drill down on the best options fast.

I appreciate the input and leads. It's a new cartridge to me and all the info will give me an edge on these swine (friends) I'm competing against. Ssshhh, they may be watching.

With one of my 6.5 Prc s I m getting 3300 plus with 58.3 grs of N165 and cci250 primers with the 124 and 3400 plus with the 123 Hammer at 3400 with 62.5 grs of N165 using cci250 primers . I found that the cci200 primers will allow more powder before pressuring out . I'm in the process of changing those loads too N560 with cci200 primers . I did another load work up with the 109 gr and N560 with cci200 s and made it too 3728fps with65 grs . Those vel are wit a 26 in proof 1-8 . Safe in my rifle maybe not in yours start low and work up.I'm expecting 3400 with the 124 and 3500 with the 123 with my new load work up . Hope that gives you some help. My freebore is .145 instead of .188 .

 

[StumpyJohnson]

With one of my 6.5 Prc s I m getting 3300 plus with 58.3 grs of N165 and cci250 primers with the 124 and 3400 plus with the 123 Hammer at 3400 with 62.5 grs of N165 using cci250 primers . I found that the cci200 primers will allow more powder before pressuring out . I'm in the process of changing those loads too N560 with cci200 primers . I did another load work up with the 109 gr and N560 with cci200 s and made it too 3728fps with65 grs . Those vel are wit a 26 in proof 1-8 . Safe in my rifle maybe not in yours start low and work up.I'm expecting 3400 with the 124 and 3500 with the 123 with my new load work up . Hope that gives you some help. My freebore is .145 instead of .188 .

Have you shot Hornady cx's? Those are amazing numbers can't wait to get this build going.

 

[Hard rock]

Have you shot Hornady cx's? Those are amazing numbers can't wait to get this build going.

I'm strictly a Hammer supporter , I haven't found a bullet or rifle I have that won't shoot sub Moa , even with the load work up. When I'm satisfied with vel I tune from there, too finalize my load. I'm loading Hammer bullets in 6 different rifles of mine and have a lot more too go. My biggest problem is I wish I had Hammer bullets 30 or 40 yrs ago . My handloading time is running out . Maybe the Good Lord will bless me with another 10 or 15 yrs .

 

[Hard rock]

I'm strictly a Hammer supporter , I haven't found a bullet or rifle I have that won't shoot sub Moa , even with the load work up. When I'm satisfied with vel I tune from there, too finalize my load. I'm loading Hammer bullets in 6 different rifles of mine and have a lot more too go. My biggest problem is I wish I had Hammer bullets 30 or 40 yrs ago . My handloading time is running out . Maybe the Good Lord will bless me with another 10 or 15 yrs .

That Hammer supporter was spell checks wording , It should have said . I'm strictly a Hammer fan boy.

 

[fordy]

Gday franko21
No worries on spending time . also I love animals so much that they deserve the best & if you only get one thing out of the following im so happy as your impact to tipping will improve & im trying not to sound cocky so please don't take it that way I'm no guru & fairly dumb just observant & of course Jm2cw

Couple great questions in here & im probably going to go all over the place as coming to the end of calving season & my sleep pattern has messed my body up ( my mind is buggered already lol ) so just pull me up where clarifications are needed or correct me if I'm wrong or put a different proposition up as I'm always open to learning

this process is not as simple as just a few lines I believe , well my world as I've spent the best part of my hunting life trying to work things out for the most consistent outcome & just lucky culling was a means to see patterns so easily

Based upon your experience, do you have any thoughts about caliber and it's relationship to performance for copper monolithic bullets? Is a bigger (say .308 vs .264) projectile just plain better, assuming that you can handle the recoil? Also, do you have a personal "cut off" velocity for using a projectile or do you use them up to the manufacturer's recommended minimum velocity?

Also, thank you for taking the time to help me understand this.

First on caliber if you can run a bigger caliber @ the same velocity as accurate I'll go bigger every time now there is also the part you can drop velocity on the bigger caliber & results are roughly equal ( there is a line cross moment & I haven't been able to work that out with certainty but trying )
& how monos have changed my old process of what I did to get great preformance out of cup& core ( still some similarities but we need to clear our head especially with hammers )
It's all in the bubble
Penertration is my number 1 priority
( assuming pill is accurate ) as shallow penertration is worse than over ( broadly speaking ) so I want ample penertration & really I can drop around 25% ( hammers ) from my old thoughts / uses with ease on the majority of weights example
375 300gr now 250
30 cal 200gr now 150
Now depending on critter I'll go up or down off terminal results but my base is set on 25% & hammers cover this with ease other brands a little different & the 15% less is a good baseline if you are a longrange only guy I'd look @ a different process
The rest I just do up drop charts of a comparison between the 2 & velocity impact is key here & leads us into the more crucial part & that's the velocity impact & creating the correct bubble part of this is a big enough wound channel & more importantly straight line penertration & this is where we have to be extremely careful!!! I can't emphasise this enough with monos ( leaving hammers out )
The vast majority of companies give a low end working velocity well let's define working & is it a pill that just starts to deform or takes on a different shape than their normal most effective / efficient terminal shape hmmm I've got to get pictures to show what I mean but time limited so I'll come back asap with those or a few other forms of the deformed pill @ low velocities I just don't like as the fur calculator has shown preformance drops off considerably

so let's put the cat among the pigeons
Most mono companies low end working velocities are crap yes they will kill but the results are less than impressive & I would take certain frangibles anyday / everyday over the vast majority of them
I am one for the best terminal results over our hunting ranges we can get not that just killed pill ( I'm also realist as a 3000 impact kills better than a 2000 broadly speaking & don't expect the 2 different impacts to kill identical as they don't some frangible are actually better killers @ lower velocity than high along with some monos it's simple really = velocity windows )

The one where this low end velocity shows up is extended runs on the fur calculator or worse a lost animal & just by looking @ a pill in its terminal form ( across velocities) I have a fair certainty of where it will potentially fail then it's confirmed either way once critters are taken this also includes high velocity impact

I think the biggest thing people get confused is when we see that great preformance on the good shot placement ( myself included until I step back & clear my head ) when really it doesn't matter on that as most pills kill if in the right spot it's that less than ideal shot that tells us more & look how many comment great preformance on a cns shot myself included . you can get data from it but I dismiss it ( with respect once again I'm talking terminally & love the outcome for hunter & animal ) as a reliable indicator as a true solid will do the same basically & on my sheets I have a spot for cns then bangflop ( plus other columns) as 2 different things in my world

Hope that explains a little more but the biggest thing is look @ a company that it's terminal pill design mushroom or shed dosent matter when that changes you have a idea preformance will be compromised eventually eg
Barnes 30 cal 125 gr pill works very well @ most ranges drop the velocity impacts either side of 2200 & 3300 & the form has changed enough that longer runs occur on average especially the lower velocity
The higher velocity impact kills better than the low but the 33003400 once it starts ripping petals off becomes basically a round nose & while it is straight for a bit it dosent stay that way & on occasions it will miss the vitals completely on quarter away or even deflect off bone more often than it's true form
This is not to say it happens ever shot but I'll guarantee it will eventually as I've seen way to many times , a low % yes but I don't like a bingo raffle

This is replicated so many times with so many pills it becomes so repetitive once you see what's going on
Yes hammers are different & I haven't worked out the full velocity window of these yet but it's big & the top end



Gotta go back asap
Cheers