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Copper Bullet Blues
- Thread starter Lazerus
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Cold Trigger Finger
Well-Known Member
GS CUSTOM USA - Bullet Technical Profile
This bullet may work perfectly for you. GS Custom is an advertiser here at LRH
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/02hv.html
This bullet may work perfectly for you. GS Custom is an advertiser here at LRH
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/02hv.html
Wedgy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2013
- Messages
- 3,278
I'm going thru the same thing switching out all my pet Berger loads to copper as I'm in Cali also. Very frustrating, I couldn't get much going with the Cutting Edge 130's either but have had some success with the Barnes 127LRX 0.468 BC. Consistent 3/4" at 100 yards with 47.5 grains of IMR 4350 @ 0.040 off. I'm hoping to tighten up with seating depth and move the powder by 0.2 grains each way. Shot 0.33 with 51.5 grains of H4831sc but was dropping primers out of my Lapua brass and a sticky bolt makes it a no go. Less powder was 1.5"+ so needless to say after 6 different powders this is getting old. Then I have 4 more rifles to do.
I have some of the CEB 6.5mm 140's if you want to try them I'll mail some out. It's cheaper than me testing them. I did get some H1000 that I'll try this weekend.
The good news is my girlfriend met some people who own a winery in Napa and they hire people to hunt the pigs so hopefully we will get to make a "Swine & Dine" trip soon !! I love my pig hunting but it seems most of the pigs are on private land where the water is, even more so with our drought, and they charge $500-$700 to shoot a pig which is out of my league.
Thanks for the info and keep posting your results.
I have some of the CEB 6.5mm 140's if you want to try them I'll mail some out. It's cheaper than me testing them. I did get some H1000 that I'll try this weekend.
The good news is my girlfriend met some people who own a winery in Napa and they hire people to hunt the pigs so hopefully we will get to make a "Swine & Dine" trip soon !! I love my pig hunting but it seems most of the pigs are on private land where the water is, even more so with our drought, and they charge $500-$700 to shoot a pig which is out of my league.
Thanks for the info and keep posting your results.
We all share the same challenge on the copper conversion. I guess one way to look at it is that maybe you can justify a new gun or at least a rebarrel.
I don't claim any great expertise, but if you look carefully at the GS Custom and CEB data (especially GS Custom) there are very specific twist vs bullet length parameters that have a big impact on performance.
I don't know the twist on your rifle, but the twist in my factory 270 win is really marginal for a 130 grain bullet stability. To really do it correctly, it looks like I have to first decide on the exact bullet I want to use, then buy the rifle barrel in the twist needed.
I am using the "opportunity" to justify (in my mind) moving up to 375 or 416, but I am still in the learning phase before making that move.
I don't claim any great expertise, but if you look carefully at the GS Custom and CEB data (especially GS Custom) there are very specific twist vs bullet length parameters that have a big impact on performance.
I don't know the twist on your rifle, but the twist in my factory 270 win is really marginal for a 130 grain bullet stability. To really do it correctly, it looks like I have to first decide on the exact bullet I want to use, then buy the rifle barrel in the twist needed.
I am using the "opportunity" to justify (in my mind) moving up to 375 or 416, but I am still in the learning phase before making that move.
Wedgy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2013
- Messages
- 3,278
Savage LRH 6.5x284 is a 1:8 twist barrel which will stabilize anything it can spit out. Matter of fact I don't know who makes a faster spin.
A .416 ??? That's huge ! And expensive to shoot. I was shooting my .243 Win to 1K but that was with 115 grain bullets(in an LA). The heaviest I can find in copper is 100 grains(which I can't get to fly in a 1:7 twist) and I think anything heavier would be too long. End result I moved up to the 6.5. I still hunt with the .243 but not past 450 yards with a 90 grain E-tip.
A .416 ??? That's huge ! And expensive to shoot. I was shooting my .243 Win to 1K but that was with 115 grain bullets(in an LA). The heaviest I can find in copper is 100 grains(which I can't get to fly in a 1:7 twist) and I think anything heavier would be too long. End result I moved up to the 6.5. I still hunt with the .243 but not past 450 yards with a 90 grain E-tip.
Thanks for all the responses guys. My twist rate on my barrel is 1 in 8. I am running a 28 inch Brux. I don't really see the point in going with a bullet with a BC lower than 550. At that point, I may as well be shooting a 270. I think the reason most people shoot the 6.5 is the high BC, coupled with the form flow factor. All that and add a high sectional density and it is a killer round. I have 5 years before I have to make the complete switch. I am hoping new bullets come out in that time for me to try. I have new test loads ready to go from 5 off the lans to 50 off the lans. I am trying two new powders, (re-loader 22 and Hybrid 100V). If anyone has had particular success with a given powder and a 6.5 cutting edge bullet I would love to hear about it. My 140 grain Bergers are currently leaving my barrel at an average 2973. The good news is still that my 300 Win Mag is actually pulling tighter groups with the cutting edge 180 grains then it did with any other bullet. I have got three shoots at 100 yards with that round, that are minuscule.
davkrat
Well-Known Member
One more NorCal native going through the same thing. Wife and I are starting a small business and you wouldn't believe the hoops. Makes the copper bullet thing seem like child's play but I wouldn't leave this state for anything.
The 7mags I've loaded for all shoot one hole groups with 150 E-tips. Three different powders have made no difference same ragged holes and sub MOA out to 600 yards. My .308 shooting 150 E-tips has been the most frustrating load I've ever worked on. Tried 5 or 6 powders and still get the same results some groups under MOA but then I'll get a few that go 2-3 MOA. No rhyme or reason and the strangest thing is I am more likely to shoot a 3" group at 400 than shoot a 3" group at 200? I really believe you have to shoot the copper bullets FAST. Our 7 mags can get the 150s over 3000fps my .308 struggles to safely get them above 2700. Forget comparing the BC to lead core bullets unless you are shooting g a powerful magnum that can really launch the heavy for caliber bullets. With lead free more speed is better than a heavy with high BC both for accuracy and on game performance (expansion).
I think the 150 in a 7mag hits that sweet spot of having a high enough BC but being light and short enough to be driven fast while the smallest weight in .308 is a bit much for the more modest .30 cases. I'd say if you can't hit 3000+ fps you need to look for a lighter bullet unless you just want to shoot pigs inside 400 yards (my .308 Etip load). Also .050" off the lands has been the sweet spot for our guns.
The 7mags I've loaded for all shoot one hole groups with 150 E-tips. Three different powders have made no difference same ragged holes and sub MOA out to 600 yards. My .308 shooting 150 E-tips has been the most frustrating load I've ever worked on. Tried 5 or 6 powders and still get the same results some groups under MOA but then I'll get a few that go 2-3 MOA. No rhyme or reason and the strangest thing is I am more likely to shoot a 3" group at 400 than shoot a 3" group at 200? I really believe you have to shoot the copper bullets FAST. Our 7 mags can get the 150s over 3000fps my .308 struggles to safely get them above 2700. Forget comparing the BC to lead core bullets unless you are shooting g a powerful magnum that can really launch the heavy for caliber bullets. With lead free more speed is better than a heavy with high BC both for accuracy and on game performance (expansion).
I think the 150 in a 7mag hits that sweet spot of having a high enough BC but being light and short enough to be driven fast while the smallest weight in .308 is a bit much for the more modest .30 cases. I'd say if you can't hit 3000+ fps you need to look for a lighter bullet unless you just want to shoot pigs inside 400 yards (my .308 Etip load). Also .050" off the lands has been the sweet spot for our guns.
Shootin4fun
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good opportunity to move out of Cali.....
I visited that state once for a week doing construction work....I have zero desire to ever go back. Then again, I was in NoCal where all the freaks, hippies, and homos were.
Mudrunner, your limited experience of Calif. and quickly drawn sociological conclusions, as well as your non-hunting related travel plans can be stated many places, but a reloading forum is hardly the appropriate venue. I'm surprised Len or the Admin haven't whacked you on the back of your knuckles already.
None of us like the anti gun politicians running around this state or many of teh social / economic policies they put forth. But we fight against their idiotic proposals as much as possible, much thanks to the NRA in the area of gun control. If you want to get in a ******* match about your state vs. Calif., I'll just ask, "What has been invented or designed in Alabama in the last 70 years? Anything?" Nevermind...back to reloading.
With regards to the lead ban for hunting, it seems like most us don't like being force into it, but its interesting to note that the use of Barnes is among the leaders in Len's poll, and most on this site don't live in Calif. For now I use both but Barnes has never let me down; they drill 'em and bring 'em down fast.
Barnes seemed difficult to find good loads for at first. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, if you seat 'em deep and push 'em hard, they can be very accurate. One thing is that with lead bullets I have a couple of accurate nodes, where as with Barnes it seems to be best only around max loads. I have loads for the 130gr TSX in 270win and 85gr 243 that are .25 MOA. The 243 go out at 3200 fps (38.0 Varget), and the 270 at 2900 (54.4 H4350). Both 22" barrels running safe but high pressures. Primers are very flattened but no other pressure signs. Case life is decent (8+). I used Barnes recommended spec as .050" off lands and went from there on powder charges.
2900 might seem slow for a 130 out of a 270 but it has smoked anything I've hit with it, including wild pig shoulder shots. (160 yards, Blew a .5"+ hole through the shoulder bone, pulverized all neck/thoracic bones, exited below far shoulder, .75" hole. Did not take a step, DRT)
Shootin4fun
Well-Known Member
***Yes, they seem to tighten up when the loads get hot. But this is not unique to solid copper.
I have a 243 win Hdy 100gr Interlock load that's like that....solid .2 MOA but at 3070 - 3100fps expanding primer pockets and stretching above the webbing take their toll fast...I found out the dangerous way with a few ruptured cases. IMR4831. I'm now redoing lower power tests to find something with less pressure but good velocity.
I don't think that is as much an option with solid copper...they seem to only like going fast.
Hope you get some pigs at that winery....You are lucky to have connected with that. Yes, the pigs are smart and stick around the farms. But that makes 'em taste better.
