WyoElk2Hunt
Well-Known Member
He is in Alaska right now be back shortly. Currently Caribou hunting and test ing cutting edge bullets and a 338 Sin of his own. Don't give up on him. Please.
Contest; Test a McMillan EOL Rifle
- Thread starter McMillan
- Start date
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For a rifle of this type where expectations are higher than the normal run of the mill factory rifle it would be very refreshing to have a comprehensive review that would cover things not normally seen in the rags. Because of advertising and other pressures some of the well known writers are under pressure for obvious reasons to keep negative or controversial comments to a minimum.
Accuracy is paramount so obviously everyone wants to know how well a rifle will shoot. The rifle should be obviously appealing to the eye because when discretionary income is being spent in the amounts we are discussing here there are those of us who are interested in the little things such as:
What does the bedding look like with the barreled action removed?
What type of pillar was used?
Is the action true?
Does the firing pin shroud drag which will cause inconsistent firing pin force when the pin hits the primer?
Use a bore scope to examine the chamber, throat as well as the rifling
Close examination of the muzzle crown
There are many more things I look at such as the threads on the barrel and how the shoulder is cut. My tubes will not even turn a tenth before full engaged and achieving complete lock up. Make sure there is no internal interference with anything touching the trigger mechanism. In the case of even if I will not use them on a SS rifle flat head screws and if they are timed properly.
Finally, it would be refreshing to see someone with the proper equipment who knows how to shoot (maybe a BR person who wins) that has a proper rest, bags and knows how to use them. By this I mean settling, leveling and knowing how to only chamber the round when you are going to pull the trigger rather than chambering and waiting on condition allowing heat transfer. It is hard to shoot a 10 shot group without generating some heat however, a rifle of this type should not suffer the problems of mass produced factory rifles.
The above are just a few thoughts of what would be interesting to me but I have gotton to watch my Smith build at least a hundred rifles when he had his shop here and am a little spoiled.
Accuracy is paramount so obviously everyone wants to know how well a rifle will shoot. The rifle should be obviously appealing to the eye because when discretionary income is being spent in the amounts we are discussing here there are those of us who are interested in the little things such as:
What does the bedding look like with the barreled action removed?
What type of pillar was used?
Is the action true?
Does the firing pin shroud drag which will cause inconsistent firing pin force when the pin hits the primer?
Use a bore scope to examine the chamber, throat as well as the rifling
Close examination of the muzzle crown
There are many more things I look at such as the threads on the barrel and how the shoulder is cut. My tubes will not even turn a tenth before full engaged and achieving complete lock up. Make sure there is no internal interference with anything touching the trigger mechanism. In the case of even if I will not use them on a SS rifle flat head screws and if they are timed properly.
Finally, it would be refreshing to see someone with the proper equipment who knows how to shoot (maybe a BR person who wins) that has a proper rest, bags and knows how to use them. By this I mean settling, leveling and knowing how to only chamber the round when you are going to pull the trigger rather than chambering and waiting on condition allowing heat transfer. It is hard to shoot a 10 shot group without generating some heat however, a rifle of this type should not suffer the problems of mass produced factory rifles.
The above are just a few thoughts of what would be interesting to me but I have gotton to watch my Smith build at least a hundred rifles when he had his shop here and am a little spoiled.
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And a am completely ok with that type of examination. I will say I don't want you taking the barrel off to look at the threads and how they lock up. Just check all the other things you mentioned and take for granted that the work you can't see is as good as the work you can see.
Also, as anyone who has ever shot much from a bench, there is a lot more to actually getting a 1/2" group than just having a rifle that will do it. Especially when we are talking about traditional hunting rifles. Our LRH which is built on an A-3 stock would be much easier to produce a 1/2 group than our Outdoorsman even though they are equally as accurate. The LRH is a straight stock with a 1.950 wide forend with parallel vertical sides and 1.350 wide flat on the bottom. The butt stock is straight with no cast off or cant which makes it ride the rear bag better. The Outdoorsman in the same caliber uses a stock adapted from the Sako 75 Hunter, which has about a 1" forend with traditional rounded side and virtually no flat on the bottom. The butt stock has both cast off and cant which makes mounting it and getting behind the scope extremely easy, but when using a rear bag it causes the butt to move to the right and twist some which makes the barrel rise to the left. As a result, making sure the rifle and the rear bag is in exactly the same position is even more critical than with a regular benchrest friendly stock. It commonly attributes to vertical stringing if you aren't diligent about making sure they are in the correct position each shot.
One last thing. We do most of our accuracy testing with our hunting rifles with a cold bore. You rarely if ever get a chance to fire a few shots to warm the barrel up before you shoot at an animal. We shoot one round and a follow up shot from a cold bore to make sure we know exactly where those first two shots are going. It doesn't mean we aren't confident that our rifles will shoot good 5 shot groups, we do that as well.
Now if I haven't lost you, Boss, are you capable of and would you be willing to conduct the sort of test you mentioned above. I think it is pretty clear that if LTLR is willing we will get him to do a test on one rifle, but I would actually like to test both the LRH and the Outdoorsman so if you agree I will send you a rifle as well. You pick which one and what caliber. I'll include the ammo.
Also, as anyone who has ever shot much from a bench, there is a lot more to actually getting a 1/2" group than just having a rifle that will do it. Especially when we are talking about traditional hunting rifles. Our LRH which is built on an A-3 stock would be much easier to produce a 1/2 group than our Outdoorsman even though they are equally as accurate. The LRH is a straight stock with a 1.950 wide forend with parallel vertical sides and 1.350 wide flat on the bottom. The butt stock is straight with no cast off or cant which makes it ride the rear bag better. The Outdoorsman in the same caliber uses a stock adapted from the Sako 75 Hunter, which has about a 1" forend with traditional rounded side and virtually no flat on the bottom. The butt stock has both cast off and cant which makes mounting it and getting behind the scope extremely easy, but when using a rear bag it causes the butt to move to the right and twist some which makes the barrel rise to the left. As a result, making sure the rifle and the rear bag is in exactly the same position is even more critical than with a regular benchrest friendly stock. It commonly attributes to vertical stringing if you aren't diligent about making sure they are in the correct position each shot.
One last thing. We do most of our accuracy testing with our hunting rifles with a cold bore. You rarely if ever get a chance to fire a few shots to warm the barrel up before you shoot at an animal. We shoot one round and a follow up shot from a cold bore to make sure we know exactly where those first two shots are going. It doesn't mean we aren't confident that our rifles will shoot good 5 shot groups, we do that as well.
Now if I haven't lost you, Boss, are you capable of and would you be willing to conduct the sort of test you mentioned above. I think it is pretty clear that if LTLR is willing we will get him to do a test on one rifle, but I would actually like to test both the LRH and the Outdoorsman so if you agree I will send you a rifle as well. You pick which one and what caliber. I'll include the ammo.
Kelly First I am flattered that you would consider me to test your newest rifle. Also, I should have mentioned that I have the ability to shoot at distances from 100 yds to at least 2k. The targets and gongs are set up at 600 and 1k because that is what I shoot in competition and we like to shoot steel at that range for fun and practice for feral hogs! Currently, have all of the equipment to do everything mentioned above except what would be needed to BP the action and that is not an issue with the barrel staying on.
Just a little FYI---my favorite hunting rifle (one of the pics below the other is me working at my Smiths on one of my builds) which is used frequently here in Texas wears a product of yours. What time frame do you envision the testing to be performed in and what calibers will be available? The rationale behind that question has to do with factory ammunition and the availability of the SMK for example in certain calibers. Using the 300 Win for example there are several loadings available to the shooter that will bring out the potential in a given rifle at range. Should you want me to evaluate long distance capability then vertical dispersion can become an issue and the ammunition used can be significant factor.
This sounds like it just might be a lot of fun! You asked if I was capable and I like to think that I am. I have a few IBS HOF points, won a few matches, IBS State Score 1K championship. Can give you several names of people who you know and can contact to make sure my bona fides are what I say that they are.
David
winmag
Well-Known Member
All good cantidates so far, but I'm floored that noone nominated Broz for this one yet.
Kirby yes
Shawn yes
LTLR yes
Boss yes
Roy yes, & the writeup would be hilarious, but serious & honest.
All excelent cantidates, & men who's opinions & findings are respected & valued.
But Broz has to be nominated at least. He's posted a lot of his testing, & is a credible, dedicated, & serious Long Range Hunter, & shooter, as well as an honest person.
Well any of the above mentioned would be a great choice, & LRH has many good choices.
Kirby yes
Shawn yes
LTLR yes
Boss yes
Roy yes, & the writeup would be hilarious, but serious & honest.
All excelent cantidates, & men who's opinions & findings are respected & valued.
But Broz has to be nominated at least. He's posted a lot of his testing, & is a credible, dedicated, & serious Long Range Hunter, & shooter, as well as an honest person.
Well any of the above mentioned would be a great choice, & LRH has many good choices.
ICANHITHIMMAN
Well-Known Member
I want to add one more thing for consideration in the criteria. We see alot of rifles come from companies that advertise them as long range guns. Then chamber them in huge rounds that have alot of potential and then they handi cap them with short barrels(24") or rediculous twist rates.
I have seen alot of ED Browns write up's on your rifles not to mention owning one myself and I do look forwar to hearing the results of this thread.
I have seen alot of ED Browns write up's on your rifles not to mention owning one myself and I do look forwar to hearing the results of this thread.
ICANHITHIMMAN
If you look at our website you'll see that the EOL rifles are spec'd differently than our standard hunting rifles. Take the .300 for instance. Our Outdoorsman has a 28" 1-12 twist whereas the EOL Outdoorsman has a 26" 1-10 twist. Our rifles were designed and built to get the maximum performance out of the biggest range of hunting bullets, 150 to 180 gr hunting bullets. The 1-12 makes sense. The EOL is designed specifically to shoot 210 Bergers. Not only does this require the 1-10 but we designed the chamber reamer so that we could maintain an OAL that will allow us to eject a loaded round, and still seat the bullets touching the lands. As for the barrel length, when you add about 1.5" of muzzle break to the end of the barrel you end up with almost 30", Bob Beck of EOL felt like the decrease in velocity of about 100 fps was worth a 2" shorter barrel. Easier to handle.
Even though we are a manufacturing company with 17 employees (in the rifle company, we have 50 in the stock company), we still build every rifle one at a time, and have the flexibility to make decisions based on what makes a better rifle rather than what makes more money.
If you look at our website you'll see that the EOL rifles are spec'd differently than our standard hunting rifles. Take the .300 for instance. Our Outdoorsman has a 28" 1-12 twist whereas the EOL Outdoorsman has a 26" 1-10 twist. Our rifles were designed and built to get the maximum performance out of the biggest range of hunting bullets, 150 to 180 gr hunting bullets. The 1-12 makes sense. The EOL is designed specifically to shoot 210 Bergers. Not only does this require the 1-10 but we designed the chamber reamer so that we could maintain an OAL that will allow us to eject a loaded round, and still seat the bullets touching the lands. As for the barrel length, when you add about 1.5" of muzzle break to the end of the barrel you end up with almost 30", Bob Beck of EOL felt like the decrease in velocity of about 100 fps was worth a 2" shorter barrel. Easier to handle.
Even though we are a manufacturing company with 17 employees (in the rifle company, we have 50 in the stock company), we still build every rifle one at a time, and have the flexibility to make decisions based on what makes a better rifle rather than what makes more money.
Silverback7
Well-Known Member
Kirby allen andIcanhithimman
ICANHITHIMMAN
Well-Known Member
Thats great to hear I have checked out the page. I Think its great you guys comming here and doing this asking for input. It speeks alot to the community we have assembled here.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
I just got back late last night. I sincerely appreciate and respect the opinions from the guys on here. We have probably the best forum on the net for honest opinions from many top dedicated shooters offering honest input that helps us all get better.
I agree all the names mentioned can do a very good job with this project. I enjoy reading reports from all of them. I want to sincerely thank all of you for nominating me for this project. I have the time, facilities and knowledge to give everyone an honest appraisal of the capabilities of this rifle from such a respected company in this business. I have several hunts coming up that it would work well on if McMillan wants a hunting test also.
Well, My wife just saw this and got very excited. She said "you know me and Bridger (my son) both drew Buffalo tags and that trophy deer unit again". I wonder if you were selected they would let us test it on that. Women.
I agree all the names mentioned can do a very good job with this project. I enjoy reading reports from all of them. I want to sincerely thank all of you for nominating me for this project. I have the time, facilities and knowledge to give everyone an honest appraisal of the capabilities of this rifle from such a respected company in this business. I have several hunts coming up that it would work well on if McMillan wants a hunting test also.
Well, My wife just saw this and got very excited. She said "you know me and Bridger (my son) both drew Buffalo tags and that trophy deer unit again". I wonder if you were selected they would let us test it on that. Women.
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