Concentricity/Neck Turning/Culling Cases:

[crkckr]

There is a lot off good advice in this thread but I think it comes down to what your expectations are for your rifles. You said you wern't the best shooter, which is fine, but do you want to be? If you want to squeeze the last Nth of accuracy out of your rifles, giving yourself the best shot at becoming one of those really good long range shooters, then you'll have to follow some of the more complicated routines for that.

I usually don't ever toss brass out, although there's always some that end up in the "fouler" box. It would have to have a very serious defect to be scrapped. If using one of the cheaper brands of brass, find a few that seem to be the most rounded in the mouth and see if they chamber (most bulk pack the brass and it gets the snot beat out of it). If so, do all of your case prep (uniform flash holes, deburr the inside of the flash hole on punched flash holes, uniform the primer pocket) then neck size. If the bolt doesn't drop on them normally, then you will have to full length size them.

Check the OAL of the brass and decide at what point you're going to trim and to what length.

If you're going to check and/or ream or trim necks, now's the time. You can also weight sort the brass. I actually mark each case with an engraver, down at the base. Easier to sort after cleaning cases.

Now you can start your loading & testing. Other than case length, you won't have to do anything else to the brass in the way of prep except inspection after cleaning.

Decide what you want out of all this and how much work you're willing to put into it. How much more accuracy are you going to get by deburring flash holes? You probably won't be able to measure it if that's all you do! Pretty much the same with any single step (turning/reaming necks is probably the single exception to this!). It's the combination of all the little things that will help you wring the last bit out of your rifle... that, and using proper technique on the bench.

If you're not interested in getting that last .001" out the rifles, you can get away with all kinds of sins!

Ya makes yer choices and pays yer money, all the rest is work on your part!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[FamilyH]

Folks,

I tried my best to research this question on the reloading page, but was unsuccessful in finding the answers to my specific question:

I have all the precision loading tools you could hope for. I will soon be reloading for .300 Win Mag and .300 RUM, using Berger Bullets.

I have a new inventory of 300 Remington cases in .300 RUM and 100 cases in the Winnie. I will soon be the proud owner of 300 rounds of Berger factory bullets--which, when shot, will be a source of what I suspect will be excellent cases for the future. I realize the Remington cases are not everyone's favorite.

My question is as follows: I have the Sinclair Case Sorting Tool and the Sinclair Concentricity Tool, each with its own dial indicator--as well as the Sinclair Case Turning Tool. It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong!) that I can use the Concentricity Tool to determine (1) Bullet runout on reloaded OR factory ammo, AND (2) neck concentricity with case, measured at the neck, either fired or re-sized). It is also my understanding that I can use the sorting tool to measure neck thickness for consistency.

So, OK--I am sitting down at my bench with say, 100 new cases in front of me. I measure them on both tools:

(1) At what point in non-concentricity of neck to body should I cull the case? Or should I resize the case no matter how out of whack it is, and remeasure?

(2) Same question with regard to inconsistency in neck thickness? Is there a recommended difference in thousandths at which one should give up on the case?

(3) I hear about "banana cases" and how they should be culled. I think the whole concept with which I am struggling here is this: How do you know when you have a non-salvageable case?

(4) With regards to neck turning, I realize that some people think is stupid EVER to turn and some who do it religiously. Question is: If you do turn case necks, after running an expander through the necks, how many thousandths out-of even

Thanks as always for your advice--sorry that it is such a one-way street!

Best regards,

Russ

Any case that has neck thickness problems is a bad case. Plus case weight changes that are to far light or heavy. A case that is banana shaped is caused by the exstracter, why bench rest shooters have them removed.

 

[Love a Weatherby]

Folks,

I tried my best to research this question on the reloading page, but was unsuccessful in finding the answers to my specific question:

I have all the precision loading tools you could hope for. I will soon be reloading for .300 Win Mag and .300 RUM, using Berger Bullets.

I have a new inventory of 300 Remington cases in .300 RUM and 100 cases in the Winnie. I will soon be the proud owner of 300 rounds of Berger factory bullets--which, when shot, will be a source of what I suspect will be excellent cases for the future. I realize the Remington cases are not everyone's favorite.

My question is as follows: I have the Sinclair Case Sorting Tool and the Sinclair Concentricity Tool, each with its own dial indicator--as well as the Sinclair Case Turning Tool. It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong!) that I can use the Concentricity Tool to determine (1) Bullet runout on reloaded OR factory ammo, AND (2) neck concentricity with case, measured at the neck, either fired or re-sized). It is also my understanding that I can use the sorting tool to measure neck thickness for consistency.

So, OK--I am sitting down at my bench with say, 100 new cases in front of me. I measure them on both tools:

(1) At what point in non-concentricity of neck to body should I cull the case? Or should I resize the case no matter how out of whack it is, and remeasure?

(2) Same question with regard to inconsistency in neck thickness? Is there a recommended difference in thousandths at which one should give up on the case?

(3) I hear about "banana cases" and how they should be culled. I think the whole concept with which I am struggling here is this: How do you know when you have a non-salvageable case?

(4) With regards to neck turning, I realize that some people think is stupid EVER to turn and some who do it religiously. Question is: If you do turn case necks, after running an expander through the necks, how many thousandths out-of even

Thanks as always for your advice--sorry that it is such a one-way street!

Best regards,

Russ

 

[Love a Weatherby]

2) Turn all the necks to the same thickness, with a tolerance of about ±0.0005. Unless the brass is excessively thick (>0.015"), leave as much as possible. If a piece of brass is so bad that you can't maintain a neck thickness of >0.0125" then it should be culled. As mentioned, you don't need to turn them down any more than necessary. When I'm done turning a new batch, VERY few, if any, of the necks will have been completely touched by the cutter. Just take off the high spots, so to speak. You may need to turn a few to figure out what the ideal setting is. Set it thick at first, turn a few, see how much is remaining, lower the cutter a smidge, rinse, and repeat till you find a happy medium.

3) Run through a bushing sizer. You may have to guess the right size bushing at first, or better yet, measure a fired piece of brass with uniform neck walls, then calculate the right bushing based on that.

4) Load up 20-30 of the above, and see if they give you consistent results compared to the Berger ammo. If so, do the whole batch, and enjoy. If not, toss the brass and buy a 6.5 Creedmoor, as I've read it's a 1 mile lightning bolt with cheap factory ammo...[/QUOTE]

 

[Love a Weatherby]

I my self would use norma brass if could find , it but they is a differences in Winchester brass weight and Remington it is the thickness of the whole case I would shoot a group with my pet load in each one of the brass makers , and then go from thier I do check the thickness of my case necks new. And shot , once , us your own judgement of when to cull , the bullets neck tension is most critical and thickness , of the case neck , to good accuracy i always run my brass though the expander ball with new. Brass to insure no unseen burs or dents

 

[ml williford]

Folks,

I tried my best to research this question on the reloading page, but was unsuccessful in finding the answers to my specific question:

I have all the precision loading tools you could hope for. I will soon be reloading for .300 Win Mag and .300 RUM, using Berger Bullets.

I have a new inventory of 300 Remington cases in .300 RUM and 100 cases in the Winnie. I will soon be the proud owner of 300 rounds of Berger factory bullets--which, when shot, will be a source of what I suspect will be excellent cases for the future. I realize the Remington cases are not everyone's favorite.

My question is as follows: I have the Sinclair Case Sorting Tool and the Sinclair Concentricity Tool, each with its own dial indicator--as well as the Sinclair Case Turning Tool. It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong!) that I can use the Concentricity Tool to determine (1) Bullet runout on reloaded OR factory ammo, AND (2) neck concentricity with case, measured at the neck, either fired or re-sized). It is also my understanding that I can use the sorting tool to measure neck thickness for consistency.

So, OK--I am sitting down at my bench with say, 100 new cases in front of me. I measure them on both tools:

(1) At what point in non-concentricity of neck to body should I cull the case? Or should I resize the case no matter how out of whack it is, and remeasure?

(2) Same question with regard to inconsistency in neck thickness? Is there a recommended difference in thousandths at which one should give up on the case?

(3) I hear about "banana cases" and how they should be culled. I think the whole concept with which I am struggling here is this: How do you know when you have a non-salvageable case?

(4) With regards to neck turning, I realize that some people think is stupid EVER to turn and some who do it religiously. Question is: If you do turn case necks, after running an expander through the necks, how many thousandths out-of even

Thanks as always for your advice--sorry that it is such a one-way street!

Best regards,

Russ

If Remington cases are not that good then what is the best to use in 300wm?

I'd add one more step to my recommendations...

Since you have the tools, I'd check concentricity on the Berger ammo, as well as the ammo you make to test. No harm in getting a baseline. Perhaps even sort by concentricity, and shoot groups with batches of increasing concentricity. If you get the same results with 0.001" runout as 0.004" runout, then you know it's not a factor for your rifles/skill level.

 

[Hoppsing55]

Having worked as a machinist for 20 years I have to question some of the accuracy tolerances being offered here? .0005 / 5 ten thousands of an inch is a pretty small number. Repeatably and accurately measuring a dimension at that level requires precision equipment and practice - experience! A puff of wind, a bodies pulse, variable trigger pull, carbon in the chamber - barrel,,, and a multitude of other factors at the instance of the primers ignition, can over ride much perceived (hoped for) mechanical accuracy attributed to the reloading process. Careful and accurate reloading is important, within "reasonable" / "realistic" tolerance.

 

[Poppadoer]

Just check the necks for splits or tiny cracks and never load the max charge.Surely somewhere between start load and max load you can find a sweet spot.If I'm shooting accurate with less than max f.p.s.I don't see pushing the max.This saves on your brass.

 

[DavidleeCole]

I have a .300 Whby Mag and used Rem. Factory ammo 180gr power point it was expensive for me so over 2 and a half years I managed to save 200 cases and finally got a reloading set up. I started to trim, neck size, neck turn, deburr flash holes inside and out, load and seat, measuring to ogive. And could hit out to 1336 yards with lethal accuracy. With that said I got some same lot nosler cases and love them but could do just as good with Rem brass.

I measure my neck thickness on several cases and get an average then set my Turner with a leaf gauge usually around .014 thick then trim.

I will measure cases with water to get capacity filling all to bead above the neck and weigh them.

I never cull any brass unless it's about to fail any brass that dont fit the bill is practice ammo or EOTW ammo not thrown away it's like chunking two dollars in the trash.

Any round that is not concentric .001 is set aside for practice then reloaded and checked again.

That's my possess and I am pleased until I learn more.

 

[ronstone09]

Folks,

I tried my best to research this question on the reloading page, but was unsuccessful in finding the answers to my specific question:

I have all the precision loading tools you could hope for. I will soon be reloading for .300 Win Mag and .300 RUM, using Berger Bullets.

I have a new inventory of 300 Remington cases in .300 RUM and 100 cases in the Winnie. I will soon be the proud owner of 300 rounds of Berger factory bullets--which, when shot, will be a source of what I suspect will be excellent cases for the future. I realize the Remington cases are not everyone's favorite.

My question is as follows: I have the Sinclair Case Sorting Tool and the Sinclair Concentricity Tool, each with its own dial indicator--as well as the Sinclair Case Turning Tool. It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong!) that I can use the Concentricity Tool to determine (1) Bullet runout on reloaded OR factory ammo, AND (2) neck concentricity with case, measured at the neck, either fired or re-sized). It is also my understanding that I can use the sorting tool to measure neck thickness for consistency.

So, OK--I am sitting down at my bench with say, 100 new cases in front of me. I measure them on both tools:

(1) At what point in non-concentricity of neck to body should I cull the case? Or should I resize the case no matter how out of whack it is, and remeasure?

(2) Same question with regard to inconsistency in neck thickness? Is there a recommended difference in thousandths at which one should give up on the case?

(3) I hear about "banana cases" and how they should be culled. I think the whole concept with which I am struggling here is this: How do you know when you have a non-salvageable case?

(4) With regards to neck turning, I realize that some people think is stupid EVER to turn and some who do it religiously. Question is: If you do turn case necks, after running an expander through the necks, how many thousandths out-of even

Thanks as always for your advice--sorry that it is such a one-way street!

Best regards,

Russ

i would invest in 100 lupua cases to go with the bergers ! use the remingtons to play with or give them away !

 

[StillLearnin]

There's a lot of experience listed in this thread. I've read all the advice herein twice and will probably read it another time or two to figure out whether I want to add or eliminate anything from my process. I've experimented with some of the tips within this thread and I conclude that I don't at this time have the guns, the skills and the rifle resting platforms to see a measurable difference on a 100 yrd target between cartridges with .001 runout and >.006 runout. I'm thinking my money in the foreseeable future will be better spent learning how to determine and compensate for wind.

 

[beaver hunter]

have some new brass and was ready to reload ,, but , in checking case necks found some were ?? either out of round or and thicker on one side than the other , should new cases be neck turned when they are new OR after they have been fired once ???

 

[entoptics]

have some new brass and was ready to reload ,, but , in checking case necks found some were ?? either out of round or and thicker on one side than the other , should new cases be neck turned when they are new OR after they have been fired once ???

If you choose to neck turn, trim the cases to uniform length, then turn them as little as possible to get uniform neck thickness. You can do it whenever, but might as well do it when they are new. It's a one time operation, and as far as I know, there's no benefit in waiting till they're once fired.

 

[Susquatch]

should new cases be neck turned when they are new OR after they have been fired once ???

Most neck turning tools turn the outside of the neck while it is held by an inside Mandrel. Necks must be sized to fit the Mandrel perfectly in order to get consistent wall thickness.

I have seen recommendations both ways. Most of the best benchrest shooters turn necks before firing but that's likely driven by the fact that they usually have tight necked chambers.

With standard chambers, I don't think it matters at all so I usually do it up front as part of my overall new case prep process.

Another thing to think about is the dreaded donut. Depending on my chamber and my bullet length, I might be pushed one way or the other.