Christensen rifles

[MudRunner2005]

MTank...

Essentially, the 6.5 PRC (RCM parent case) was made 4+ years ago, and was called the 6.5 GAP 4S (SAUM parent case)... The 6.5 GAP 4S is a failed cartridge that was designed by George Gardner of GA Precision who collaborated with Hornady. They are ****-near the same cartridge but from a different parent case. And now that Hornady & Ruger's marketing teams got behind it (along with George Gardner), and had it SAAMI standardized with a fancy cool new abbreviated name, they whored it out to all the gun youtubers, gun mag editors, etc..., and all of a sudden, it's the best thing since sliced bread...

Amazing how that works, huh?

Just to prove how similar they are... Here's a picture I found on Google comparing them side-by-side...

According to the website this was on, the 6.5 PRC is on the left...

 

[RockyMtnMT]

So is the fowling issue because of the copper used in "Hammer" bullets?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll be ordering a bunch as soon as I exhaust my current supply of 308, 30 Nosler and 338 Lapua cartriges and bullets.

I hope not! Lol. Maybe whatever steel is used in the CA match barrels is allergic to pure copper.

In all reality we rarely see any copper fouling in any rifle. I was telling people that we don't see copper fouling until we started work on this CA. To the point that we are not able to tell when a barrel is broken in Since they never show any copper. Factory Remington, Winchester, Ruger, none show copper out of the box.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I hope not! Lol. Maybe whatever steel is used in the CA match barrels is allergic to pure copper.

In all reality we rarely see any copper fouling in any rifle. I was telling people that we don't see copper fouling until we started work on this CA. To the point that we are not able to tell when a barrel is broken in Since they never show any copper. Factory Remington, Winchester, Ruger, none show copper out of the box.

Now Steve, you know that's not true... Ask anyone one the internet and they'll tell you that Remington's factory barrels are nothing more than tomato spikes...Because they once heard from a buddy who's brother's 2nd cousin's husband's room mate had one that wouldn't shoot factory Core-Lokts.

 

[WiscGunner]

Helped out a new shooter this summer that bought a CA BA Tactical in 6.5CM for local PRS style matches. Unable to get under 1.5-2" at 100yds. Upon inspection the rifle was bedded crooked and the barrel was significantly touching the stock.

Calls to CA only got the offer that they would grind out the side of the forend for more clearance and they wouldn't even entertain the idea of rebedding instead of grinding the forend. I was told if the kid paid to have someone redo the (obviously crooked to Hellen Keller) spot bedding job it would void the CA warranty.

Can't say the rifle components were bad but have seen alot better in $1000 factory rifles. The assembly and QC were clearly done by someone who didn't give a flying $&%*, if done at all. Ridiculous garbage for an exorbitant price. A Ruger American would have been a far better purchase. The customer service guy on the phone certainly didn't do the company or the customer any good.

Kid quickly dumped the rifle at a $1000 loss as the dealer wouldn't stand behind it either. Can't really blame him, I would take the hit for tgat crap either but then I wouldn't be selling crap like tgat from a company with that kind of customer service.

Has replaced it with a PVA Nucleus barrel action.

Doesn't mean some people haven't gotten a decent rifle out of them but I would personally NEVER recommend anyone give their hard earned money to that company.

 

[WiscGunner]

MTank...

Essentially, the 6.5 PRC (RCM parent case) was made 4+ years ago, and was called the 6.5 GAP 4S (SAUM parent case)... The 6.5 GAP 4S is a failed cartridge that was designed by George Gardner of GA Precision who collaborated with Hornady. They are ****-near the same cartridge but from a different parent case. And now that Hornady & Ruger's marketing teams got behind it (along with George Gardner), and had it SAAMI standardized with a fancy cool new abbreviated name, they whored it out to all the gun youtubers, gun mag editors, etc..., and all of a sudden, it's the best thing since sliced bread...

Amazing how that works, huh?

Just to prove how similar they are... Here's a picture I found on Google comparing them side-by-side...

According to the website this was on, the 6.5 PRC is on the left...

View attachment 113721

Not to completely derail the original post...

The 6.5Gap4s is about 50-60fps faster than the PRC if that matters. The 6.5 Gap4S was just picked up by Prime for factory match ammunution.
https://www.primeammo.com/ammunition.html?cat=152

I wouldn't call it a "failed" catridge but with the backing of Hornady/Ruger the "VHS" will probably win out over the "betamax" 4s. The PRC is supposedly better at feeding from a blind magazine due to increased body taper where the Gap4s is well suited to detachable magazines...according to George Gardner.

Throw in the Sherman offerings for even further inprovement.

 

[dgarrett]

I had built what really was a CA Ridgeline but off a Remington 700 action... Action was trued fluted and skeletonized The Timney Trigger and action was the only real differences from the Factory Ridgeline as I used their stock, bottom metal and their Titanium Break. I did end up getting just under 27 inch of barrel out of the CA barrel blank ..It cost me around $900 more then what a factory bought rifle would have... This gun was a real tack driver..I don't think it was worth it... and if I had it to do over again I would just buy the Ridgeline. My thought is it is allot of gun with great features for the Money.... Dave

 

[brentc]

Helped out a new shooter this summer that bought a CA BA Tactical in 6.5CM for local PRS style matches. Unable to get under 1.5-2" at 100yds. Upon inspection the rifle was bedded crooked and the barrel was significantly touching the stock.
View attachment 113720

Calls to CA only got the offer that they would grind out the side of the forend for more clearance and they wouldn't even entertain the idea of rebedding instead of grinding the forend. I was told if the kid paid to have someone redo the (obviously crooked to Hellen Keller) spot bedding job it would void the CA warranty.

Can't say the rifle components were bad but have seen alot better in $1000 factory rifles. The assembly and QC were clearly done by someone who didn't give a flying $&%*, if done at all. Ridiculous garbage for an exorbitant price. A Ruger American would have been a far better purchase. The customer service guy on the phone certainly didn't do the company or the customer any good.

Kid quickly dumped the rifle at a $1000 loss as the dealer wouldn't stand behind it either. Can't really blame him, I would take the hit for tgat crap either but then I wouldn't be selling crap like tgat from a company with that kind of customer service.

Has replaced it with a PVA Nucleus barrel action.

Doesn't mean some people haven't gotten a decent rifle out of them but I would personally NEVER recommend anyone give their hard earned money to that company.

I agree. It never should have left the factory looking like that. However, as bad as that is, it's actually pretty common for a factory rifle. Just because it's a $2500 rifle doesn't mean that it's immune to common problems induced by mass production. I've fixed and bedded plenty of higher end Winchesters, Rugers, and Remingtons that look similar to that. It's a mass produced factory rifle thing, not just a Christensen thing. The solution is fix it and shoot it. If I couldn't do it myself, I would pay someone the $50 - $100 that it costs to the bed the action long before I took $1K loss.

 

[mtank]

I agree. It never should have left the factory looking like that. However, as bad as that is, it's actually pretty common for a factory rifle. Just because it's a $2500 rifle doesn't mean that it's immune to common problems induced by mass production. I've fixed and bedded plenty of higher end Winchesters, Rugers, and Remingtons that look similar to that. It's a mass produced factory rifle thing, not just a Christensen thing. The solution is fix it and shoot it. If I couldn't do it myself, I would pay someone the $50 - $100 that it costs to the bed the action long before I took $1K loss.

There's good & bad with everything but I'm with Brentc on spending another 100 or so to fix it. I'd rather spend a extra hundred & fix it as lose a grand & start over.

 

[mountaincarver]

I bought a CA MPR here a while back in 6.5 prc. I threw some factory stuff through it and it was solid MOA. I noticed when new, it had a copper streak on end of barrel. I thought **it. after 300 rounds of reloading I found there was no problem and it actually cleans up in minutes. ended up with good rifle at repeatable .6 MOA. that proves there is some good CA stuff out there. With the amount of money we give for this stuff, any brand, you would think that it would be flawless and accurate. The reality is that after seeing and hearing about how guns shoot, this is not always true. I have a rifle that has disappointed me sitting in the closet. at the same time I have a cheaper rifle (wont go into brands and such) that I would put up against anything out there right now. How bout the guy who buys a 75k pickup with nothing but problems. glad im not in that boat..

 

[Tidus56]

I shot the ELR model in a 6.5 creedmoor this last week. I shot a .312 group with it at 200. I was shooting the fellas hand loads so that helps for sure. I liked the rifle and can't say I had any real issues with it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kimber7man]

My dealer said CA has brought everything in house and they don't have the problems from a few years back. The Ridgeline would be tough to build for the price you can buy it.

 

[davsco]

hopefully after doing some short action calibers this year in lefty, they'll do some magnums next year, hint, hint!

 

[JohnWess]

Helped out a new shooter this summer that bought a CA BA Tactical in 6.5CM for local PRS style matches. Unable to get under 1.5-2" at 100yds. Upon inspection the rifle was bedded crooked and the barrel was significantly touching the stock.
View attachment 113720

Calls to CA only got the offer that they would grind out the side of the forend for more clearance and they wouldn't even entertain the idea of rebedding instead of grinding the forend. I was told if the kid paid to have someone redo the (obviously crooked to Hellen Keller) spot bedding job it would void the CA warranty.

Can't say the rifle components were bad but have seen alot better in $1000 factory rifles. The assembly and QC were clearly done by someone who didn't give a flying $&%*, if done at all. Ridiculous garbage for an exorbitant price. A Ruger American would have been a far better purchase. The customer service guy on the phone certainly didn't do the company or the customer any good.

Kid quickly dumped the rifle at a $1000 loss as the dealer wouldn't stand behind it either. Can't really blame him, I would take the hit for tgat crap either but then I wouldn't be selling crap like tgat from a company with that kind of customer service.

Has replaced it with a PVA Nucleus barrel action.

Doesn't mean some people haven't gotten a decent rifle out of them but I would personally NEVER recommend anyone give their hard earned money to that company.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Just out of curiosity, when was this?

 

[WiscGunner]

That is absolutely ridiculous. Just out of curiosity, when was this?

Just this summer... so not a problem from their past but their problems continuing through still today. To be specific, Jun 28th, 2018 range trip prior to the July 7 WPRSC club match.

He and I both spoke to CS rep at CA on the phone while at the range. Young guy had more money than sense and rushed into buying one because carbon fiber looks cool. Individually CA parts might not be bad when put together by a competent gunsmith but the finished result from CA's version of Hellen Keller: The Gunsmith was completely unacceptable for a $2500 rifle. Completely fixable and maybe forgivable if their Customer Service had been only slightly better than a dumpster fire.

Might not be much money to properly re-bed the rifle but when CA says doing the job correctly will void any warranty on their historically problematic product, it doesn't leave you with a lot of confidence. Especially when their only recommended solution is to send to rifle to the factory to have the barrel channel ground off center to clear the barrel...but this hack job won't void any warranty because it was done at the factory. The term RMA wasn't even in this CS Rep's vocabulary and expected this kid to PAY more money to send the rifle back to be checked for an issue despite volunteering photographs.

The young shooter borrowed a KRG Bravo from another shooter to run the rifle and it shot decently with factory ammo so he was able to shoot the July match. After explaining his problem, the unanimous advise from the shooters at the match was to get a "real rifle". So he did.


If CA really want to fix their crap reputation the need to:
1)train their assembly team how to do things correctly. It is not like these are custom one-offs
2) improve their processes to reduce errors. Again, not like these are custom one-off rifles
3) train their QC department to actually look at their products. Again, not like these are custom one-off rifles so QC gauges and checks are pretty easy to make for the few models they produce.
4) train their CS Dept in the basic value of helping their paying customer with defective products

They of course do not HAVE TO DO any of this but then it is no surprise that they have the reputation they do and so many shooters running expensive setups will not spend money on their products.

CA has put a lot of effort into PR with social influences to overcome their crap product reputation but unfortunately it doesn't look like they have made any changes. The way this kid was treated for his defective rifle was just like all of the other customer service horror stories that built their reputation.

Very sad when a company with a cool product just falls flat on their face in their execution. I now all companies have problems and make mistakes but the true measure is not how you handle success but how you handle your failures. Maybe one day they will make actual improvements in their operation and can turn their reputation around.