CFE223 in cold weather??

[Teri Anne]

I experienced delayed ignition and hang fires with CFE223 one morning in the mid 30s. Velocities were all over the place.

Gave my jug to a friend that loves it, not a powder for me.

JMHO

I never experienced hang fires with CFE223 but did experience big differences in apparent velocity which resulted in erratic groups no matter what 223 load I was shooting. This got worse as temperature dropped. I still have half a jug of it that will probably get dumped into my gallon Oil jug for disposal.

 

[Idgunner]

I never experienced hang fires with CFE223 but did experience big differences in apparent velocity which resulted in erratic groups no matter what 223 load I was shooting. This got worse as temperature dropped. I still have half a jug of it that will probably get dumped into my gallon Oil jug for disposal.

 

[Idgunner]

Teri Anne, cfe sux in cold weater and when its abo e 95 degrees. But it gives awesome, consistent velocities in moderate temps. Won't hurt to hold onto it for a rainy day.

 

[Teri Anne]

Teri Anne, cfe sux in cold weater and when its abo e 95 degrees. But it gives awesome, consistent velocities in moderate temps. Won't hurt to hold onto it for a rainy day.

I am someone who likes to experiment. The CFE 223 does not meet my specifications as something that I care to use. I don't want to have to label my ammo, do not shoot above 95 degrees or below 40 degrees. We get both extremes here in Wisconsin, with target shooting and development taking place during the warm months, and hunting during the colder months. I don't use a 223 for hunting large game, but coyotes and the like are hunted year around. I don't need any ammo that I have to read the warnings before I grab it to go shoot.

 

[Teri Anne]

Don't know how temp sensitive it is since have not used it yet.
Just curious as to why the US government contracted with Hodgdon to produce this powder for military use in the 5.56, 7.62.
Yes it was made with ingredients to prevent "Coper Fouling", (CFE) but didn't Hodgdon and the US Military also think of use in environmental differences in temperature???

After spending 30 years in the Army I can attest to the fact that whomever was doing the contracting probably didn't know anything about gunpowder and temperature sensitivity. Hodgdon probably didn't mention or possibly even know about it at the time. Even if they did do you think they would turn down a multi-million dollar order? As mentioned earlier I found it to burn extremely dirty too. I still have a mostly full bottle of it which will either sit on the shelf or I will just dump engine oil straight into the bottle, take it out to the back 40 and burn it.

 

[fmuguira]

Ball type powders seem to shoot dirtier to me; especially if your pressure is much below a max type charge. Did you run your loads at max/close to max to see if it cleaned up??

 

[sdakotaguy]

If you have, or can get'em, try CCI #41 primers with CFE. That's what I use in my custom AR, and probably what the mil. contracts call for. My upper is a Wilson HB with a 1-8" twist. Accurate, very easy to clean up.

Could I assume you shoot the load mentioned above in some pretty cool Weather in NW Wyoming?

 

[sdakotaguy]

I have come up with a load that shoots 90 grain CX offerings over CFE223 really well in the bolt action 6mm ARC. This is with a BR4 primer. Id like to use this load for deer that may encounter really cool weather. Current load is with a BR4.
Thus far I have not found a load that comes close for accuracy, & velocity will not come close with historically more stable propellants like H4895 or Varget.

I was fearful to try CFE 223 as I was concerned The load may work well in warm temps & flop in cold temps. Would be great if a primer switch could go a long ways to extending cold weather performance.

Thoughts welcome!

 

[fmuguira]

Might you share your CFE223 90 gr charge weight? I ve shot 29-29.5 grs in 100 and 105 gr loadings but didn't want to group for me. 28.3 grs of H4895 with a 95 TMK shoots well but not as much velocity potential as CFE223.

Guessing you re running 28.5 to 30 gr range with 90 but curious and might try similar loads with 95 TMK backed off a gr or two from your data ….?

Thx

 

[SSG Graybush]

I have come up with a load that shoots 90 grain CX offerings over CFE223 really well in the bolt action 6mm ARC. This is with a BR4 primer. Id like to use this load for deer that may encounter really cool weather. Current load is with a BR4.
Thus far I have not found a load that comes close for accuracy, & velocity will not come close with historically more stable propellants like H4895 or Varget.

I was fearful to try CFE 223 as I was concerned The load may work well in warm temps & flop in cold temps. Would be great if a primer switch could go a long ways to extending cold weather performance.

Thoughts welcome!

In my 6.5 Grendel with a 123 gr Nos CC, 30.9 grs of cfe223 gets 2550 fps in 90° temps with .62" groups. In 30° temps it's 2478 fps and the groups open to ~1" at 100 yards. cfe223 is the worst for temp stability. But fast. If you live in temperate weather you could probably get away with it. I don't use it in hunting rounds. I just bought some N133 to try. It was designed for the 6 ppc, a sibling to the Grendel's. Supposedly temp stable. Your 6 arc is a 6 Grendel really. They barely changed it.

 

[sdakotaguy]

Might you share your CFE223 90 gr charge weight? I ve shot 29-29.5 grs in 100 and 105 gr loadings but didn't want to group for me. 28.3 grs of H4895 with a 95 TMK shoots well but not as much velocity potential as CFE223.

Guessing you re running 28.5 to 30 gr range with 90 but curious and might try similar loads with 95 TMK backed off a gr or two from your data ….?

Thx

For your rifle are you talking Gas gun or bolt gun?

1 grain under max Hornady bolt gun data is where the magic came together for my rifle. Eight tenth's of a grain under opens up considerably. This barrel tends to be a fast barrel so your sweet spot may be different than mine by a considerable margin. Or, may not come together at all.

 

[fmuguira]

Mines a bolt… thanks!

 

[Mike Matteson]

I may have a pound of 4895 in my stock. Think I will give it a try. Is there much difference between H and IMR?
Thanks!!

On the scale there is one hell of a different. H4895 ia rated at 20fps in the spread of 125', and IMR 4895 the rate is 166fps on the same scale. Loading for 22/250 it's my understanding Varget is a good powder for it. It's rated at 8fps on the same scale.

 

[sdakotaguy]

On the scale there is one hell of a different. H4895 ia rated at 20fps in the spread of 125', and IMR 4895 the rate is 166fps on the same scale. Loading for 22/250 it's my understanding Varget is a good powder for it. It's rated at 8fps on the same scale.

Interesting, where do you find these scale values.