Can you get by with “Basic” dies?

[Calvin45]

This is blasphemy no doubt but I've actually had great luck with lee dies in my 300 win, maybe just got lucky? I like how the the depriming pin doesn't break so easy like I experienced with rcbs dies. That said I've had other lee dies and the things are prone to rusting! Not good. But yeah, I've never had it in the budget to buy top notch stuff and I'm almost certainly not a good enough shooter to benefit from it anyway. If I had extra money for reloading stuff right now it sure as heck wouldn't be spent on pricier dies, I'd like to get a concentricity gauge and a neck turning tool before anything like that.

 

[Greyfox]

I used standard die for years with good results, but then my standards of performance were less then it is today having expended my range. Getting good results with standard dyes, IMO, tends to be a crap shoot and dependent on the paricular rifles chamber. At the very least, I have generally been able to achieve my LR hunting/shooting goals with a minimum criteria of using a FL sizing dye with the provision for interchangeable neck bushings....IMO, the greatest variable with standard dye sets....IMO.

 

[RT2506]

I also have had GRATE success using Lee dies. I own and over the past 50 years have used about 90% of the die makes out there and they all have there good and bad attributes and it is possible to get a bad one from any of them. I guess I have been "lucky" as some would say but I have never gotten a bad Lee die. Only thing I change with some of my Lee dies is the locking rings. I don't like not being able to lock the ring to the dies so I have to re-adjust everything between loading changes. I use one of the lock rings off a RCBS etc. that I can lock. Now some of Lee's tools are cheesy but that is another story.

 

[Poppadoer]

Variety is the spice of life.Try one first but don't part with your rcbs dies.

 

[Susquatch]

As of late, I've kind of gotten into this mindset that I'm going (as resources permit) to sequentially replace all my basic RCBS die sets with Redding type S bushing dies........... Lately I've been thinking that my money might be better spent elsewhere. How far have you been able to "push it" with standard stuff and what do you think?

This might well be the shortest post I've ever done.

Unless you are competing, it's not likely that you can improve on groups like that with more expensive dies. Basic dies are quite capable of producing groups half that size.

I'd be willing to bet really good cash that your groups are likely limited by the rifle, the load, or as someone else said, by the loose nut behind the butt plate. No rifle can shoot better than its weakest link which is usually the Butt Nut.

Last but not least, I'd be willing to bet that 90% of this forums members would be thrilled to have groups that good.

If I were you, I would save the money and put it toward other things.

 

[RetiredSniper]

I have been reloading since the 70s and still do with my LEE and RCBS dies that I have had since then. I use an old LYMAN SPARAN single stage press that I have had since the 70s. The only thing I have added since then is a small digital scale for weighing powder charges. All my loads are weighed to 0.01 grains + -. I hunt with a 308 heavy barreled HOWA mountain rifle and have never missed! You don't need any of these new fangled multi station presses to produce perfect loads. I reload 308, 35 Remington, 38 and 357 Magnum as well as 45 ACP. I aint broke nothing yet and am still using all the same equiptment!!!

 

[Flatbow]

Good question and info

 

[Calvin45]

I have been reloading since the 70s and still do with my LEE and RCBS dies that I have had since then. I use an old LYMAN SPARAN single stage press that I have had since the 70s. The only thing I have added since then is a small digital scale for weighing powder charges. All my loads are weighed to 0.01 grains + -. I hunt with a 308 heavy barreled HOWA mountain rifle and have never missed! You don't need any of these new fangled multi station presses to produce perfect loads. I reload 308, 35 Remington, 38 and 357 Magnum as well as 45 ACP. I aint broke nothing yet and am still using all the same equiptment!!!

Single stage for life!

 

[19elkhunter51]

When I first started reloading I used a Lee reloading kit that had a dipper, decapper and bullet seater that you used one at a time.
When I started shooting a lot of matches I scraped nickels and dimes together and finally bought an RCBS Rockchucker single stage press. I was really styling then. I still load all my rifle cartridges on that old RCBS press.
When I started shooting two or three matches a weekend, I bought a Dillon 450 to load my pistol cartridges. I now have two 450's, one square deal and one 650. Never loaded a single rifle cartridge on any of the Dillon presses.
I started with plain old RCBS dies and didn't know that they weren't "good enough" to make accurate loads. I always was able, and to this day, I am able to make bullets that shoot .5 to .75 MOA with those old dies. I have a Ruger 22-250 that shoots .265 MOA and a Ruger 25-06 that shoots .385 MOA with bullets built with the old RCBS dies.
When I had a custom rifle built in 338 Edge I didn't have much of a choice. I bought the (for me) very expensive Redding S bushing competition dies. I finally built some bullets that shot a group I could live with. On the the days I do my part, that rifle will shoot 285 Barnes bullets into .375 MOA.
My belief is similar to others. The nut connecting to the trigger is by far the most likely part of the equation to cause poor groups.
Once again, MY opinion.

 

[Susquatch]

I have been reloading since the 70s and still do with my LEE and RCBS dies that I have had since then. I use an old LYMAN SPARAN single stage press that I have had since the 70s. The only thing I have added since then is a small digital scale for weighing powder charges. All my loads are weighed to 0.01 grains + -. I hunt with a 308 heavy barreled HOWA mountain rifle and have never missed! You don't need any of these new fangled multi station presses to produce perfect loads. I reload 308, 35 Remington, 38 and 357 Magnum as well as 45 ACP. I aint broke nothing yet and am still using all the same equiptment!!!

I've had similar experiences. I still have and still use my old stuff.

But the irony of what you have done might well be that "the only thing you have added since then" might not be the improvement that you think it is.......

There is no doubt that digital scales are more convenient, but they usually lie. Just because the digital readout says that you are +/- 0.01 grains, doesn't mean that you really are.

I have yet to buy or use even one digital scale that is more reliable than an old fashioned balance scale.

Try weighing a charge and then add just granule of a large size powder (like 4198 through 4831). One granule of powder is significantly more than 0.01gr. Yet ill bet the scale doesn't move more than once in a good many tries.

Or try weighing just one granule alone.

Or try re-weighing the same charge several times.

The bottom line here is that the fancy digital readout can't be any better than the cheap analog weighing system and sensor inside the scale.

I do not trust digital scales and only use a digital scale to pre-weigh charges and sort brass. Then I use an old fashioned balance beam scale to fine tune the charge.

For the benefit of any one else reading this, my advice is not to trust a 0.1 grain digital scale either. They are no better. An old fashioned balance beam scale will almost always throw better charges than their new fangled digital equivalent.

 

[adam]

You can make good ammo on basic dies. You spend the money on premium dies in order to reduce the work/reject rate/time required to make a large percentage of your loads "perfect" or at least as perfect as you can make them.

I hate going through all the effort required for "perfect" rounds only to have 30-40% exceed my minimum runout standards. I just don't need that much practice ammo.

 

[skipglo]

The answer is YES. Some of us have been shooting for 50+years and did fine with the standard dies. In fact in some cases we did very well. Some of us are never satisfied with existing accuracy and want to take advantage of all the new powders and technology to improve even more.

I replace my older dies "Only" if i think I will see an improvement. (An improvement is anything that will reduce the group size or brass life)

As recommended by others, If accuracy is acceptable don't mess with it. New dies require a learning curve and can get frustrating at times so hang on to the old die set and don't strip them for parts until you are satisfied
with the new set.

J E CUSTOM

Absolutely bang on advice...47 years here and still using many of the original dies I first purchased.

 

[Calvin45]

An added observation of mine is that often bullet to bullet consistency even within the same lot is variable enough to negate the benefits of perfect tolerances with the rest of the set up.

 

[YZ-80]

Thanks all for the replies! Some good sound advice from Reloaders who have been around the block a few times, for sure. I'm gonna bag the Redding dies for my .243 and .25-06 and keep using the old standbys based on what seems to be the consensus here. I started reloading in 2008 when I bought my Rockchucker single stage press. Over the years, I've added stuff to enhance the quality of my output and feel that a couple of things (OAL & Concentricity gages) really helped. That and paying attention to uniformity seem to be the biggest things for me.

So, I'll put that die money toward some Basil Hayden and another 2 man blind for my hunting property.