As of late, I've kind of gotten into this mindset that I'm going (as resources permit) to sequentially replace all my basic RCBS die sets with Redding type S bushing dies. I have the latter for all my 6.5's and I'm quite impressed with them but I can still shoot some pretty good groups with stuff I've produced with "standard" equipment. I guess the main reasons I went with Redding was to control neck tension and runout and VLD bullets but if I've got my .243 and .25-06 shooting .5 MOA out to 300 w/ standard RCBS stuff is there really a point upgrading dies for these rifles? Lately I've been thinking that my money might be better spent elsewhere. How far have you been able to "push it" with standard stuff and what do you think?
Can you get by with “Basic” dies?
- Thread starter YZ-80
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Brother I have seen some dudes shoot some great groups with just normal stuff. I think the thing is not just one thing is going to make u much better or worse. Reloading is a systematic approach i.e. if u got a busted press and running Warner, whidden whatever high end dies u want it ain't going to matter much. If u got the best press and u running cheap dies that induce run out because of perhaps a machining error again no good. U can have the best press and dies but not a real way to meter and measure powder accurately then, again chasing your tail. Best thing to do man is get a good run out gauge and use your setup just the way it is and then do same process with Redding type S die, that will give u real world data to base your decision. By the sounds of what your saying Man U are doing just fine!
Yeah, thanks. I do have a concentricity gage and I do correct everything to .002". What I was noticing with my standard .243 dies was that I was consistently getting .001 to .002 on neck tension with the bullets and brass (Federal and Rem) that I use without some of the extra steps, so I'm like *** am I really gaining by shelling out $180 for a set of new dies. The groups don't lie.
Well brother I think u got a good process so if it ain't broke don't fix it! More time to shoot with less steps!
catskinner
Active Member
I wouldn't upgrade all my dies to Redding. Just try a Forster bullet seating die if you want to keep your runout in check.
I am like that also I care more about a seater with alignment sleeve than super high end dies.
Another Casual
Well-Known Member
I've always been happy with my basic hornady and RCBS does. Every once in a while I'll hit a sale and the hornady bushing dies will only be a few bucks more and I'll pay it. K can't tell you that the ammo comes out any different though.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The answer is YES. Some of us have been shooting for 50+years and did fine with the standard dies. In fact in some cases we did very well. Some of us are never satisfied with existing accuracy and want to take advantage of all the new powders and technology to improve even more.
I replace my older dies "Only" if i think I will see an improvement. (An improvement is anything that will reduce the group size or brass life)
As recommended by others, If accuracy is acceptable don't mess with it. New dies require a learning curve and can get frustrating at times so hang on to the old die set and don't strip them for parts until you are satisfied
with the new set.
J E CUSTOM
I replace my older dies "Only" if i think I will see an improvement. (An improvement is anything that will reduce the group size or brass life)
As recommended by others, If accuracy is acceptable don't mess with it. New dies require a learning curve and can get frustrating at times so hang on to the old die set and don't strip them for parts until you are satisfied
with the new set.
J E CUSTOM
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
I load for many different cartridges, in even more different rifles. Here is my criteria for buying dies: If I am going to load a lot for the given cartridge, I will buy high quality dies. If it is my personal rifle that I plan on shooting a lot, I will buy high quality dies. If it is a cartridge that I don't plan on loading much for or not a common cartridge, I buy basic dies.
98% of the time, I have no problem getting quality rifles to shoot sub-half MOA with the basic RCBS die set with standard FL die/seater. Even factory rifles can be made to shoot very well with basic dies. The key is quality reloading practices, accurate powder scale, and good quality components. Good brass, good powder, good primers and good bullets will create good ammunition with good quality basic die sets.
I use basic Redding or RCBS dies for: .264WM, 26 Nosler, .30-06 Spr, .300WSM, 7.82 Patriot, .300WM, .300NM, .300RUM, 7STW, 7RM, 6.5CM, .308Win, .270Win, .280Rem, .223Rem/5.56Nato, 6.5-.280AI, 6.5-06AI, .22-250, .243Win, .250AI and probably a few others I cannot think of right now. Some because I don't reload them much at all (some for even just one rifle that is not even mine), so the added $150+ cost is not worth it to me. Some because I have had the dies for a LONG time.
I use standard FL dies or bushing dies with micrometer seaters in a lot of other cases like: 6CM, 6.5CM, 6.5SLR, 6.5SS, 6.5-.284 Norma, 28 Nosler, .280AI, 7RM, .25-06AI, .260Rem, 6.5SAUM (Gap 4S), .300RUM, .338 Edge, and a few others. Some because I do a lot of different rifles or loads and the ease of adjustment is a benefit, some because it is a custom chambering, and only certain dies are available for them.
Some cartridges I even have two sets of dies for. Because I either upgraded dies when they got popular, or I was given another set.
98% of the time, I have no problem getting quality rifles to shoot sub-half MOA with the basic RCBS die set with standard FL die/seater. Even factory rifles can be made to shoot very well with basic dies. The key is quality reloading practices, accurate powder scale, and good quality components. Good brass, good powder, good primers and good bullets will create good ammunition with good quality basic die sets.
I use basic Redding or RCBS dies for: .264WM, 26 Nosler, .30-06 Spr, .300WSM, 7.82 Patriot, .300WM, .300NM, .300RUM, 7STW, 7RM, 6.5CM, .308Win, .270Win, .280Rem, .223Rem/5.56Nato, 6.5-.280AI, 6.5-06AI, .22-250, .243Win, .250AI and probably a few others I cannot think of right now. Some because I don't reload them much at all (some for even just one rifle that is not even mine), so the added $150+ cost is not worth it to me. Some because I have had the dies for a LONG time.
I use standard FL dies or bushing dies with micrometer seaters in a lot of other cases like: 6CM, 6.5CM, 6.5SLR, 6.5SS, 6.5-.284 Norma, 28 Nosler, .280AI, 7RM, .25-06AI, .260Rem, 6.5SAUM (Gap 4S), .300RUM, .338 Edge, and a few others. Some because I do a lot of different rifles or loads and the ease of adjustment is a benefit, some because it is a custom chambering, and only certain dies are available for them.
Some cartridges I even have two sets of dies for. Because I either upgraded dies when they got popular, or I was given another set.
If your FL die is sizing crooked necks then your bullet runout will suck. I start by measuring my sized brass first if it's not were I want it I try and tweak my set- up a little depending on the die if that dont work then it's a new sizing die
Not sure how they could do a better job than my Hornady dies.
Regular pistol dies are: fl size, expand, seat & crimp together
Dillon are: fl size, seat, crimp.
Crimping separately is way easier to setup, so I always buy a separate crimp die.
So, Dillon is $67; Hornady is $46 + $23
Sometimes I use the Lee taper crimp die for $13 + $4 lock ring.
Regular pistol dies are: fl size, expand, seat & crimp together
Dillon are: fl size, seat, crimp.
Crimping separately is way easier to setup, so I always buy a separate crimp die.
So, Dillon is $67; Hornady is $46 + $23
Sometimes I use the Lee taper crimp die for $13 + $4 lock ring.
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
I never crimp any center fire rifle round. Not even for my .223 AR rounds.
