Caliber for new rifle build- 7mmRSAUM?

[NEPUT17]

Barnesuser28- .284 is a well established cartridge, and for sure very accurate. I looked at it, and its still on my list of possibilities, but it looks like it has more wind deflection and drop over the 7SAUM. Does look like it may be easier to reload for though....

Agnus- I think the 7mmSAUM might be the best balanced 7mm, but Im not sure that it'll push 180's at 300fps out of a 24"...Im seeing most posts showing 3000ish, but not until you get to 28" give or take. If it can, that would be great, as my goal is to stay 26" or under.

All- as far is recoil is concerned, Im hoping that 7mm allows for calling my own hits, which is why I want to run it breaked. There are other cartridges that may be equally or more accurate, but retained velocity, and wind deflection are a big deal for this build, as I am trying to find a combo that minimizes room for error on unknown distance targets. Not as big of a deal for F-class I know, but that is just a means of practice for me, both in shooting, and wind calling.


Midnight malloy- I just took a peek at the 7mmLRM, and its impressive, but Im not sure if the slight velocity gain is worth the added recoil, for my intended needs. It certainly might be, and gunwerks seems to have something going with Hornady I think for brass, so that's intriguing. I need to look into this more though, as it sounds like a possible 150-200fps faster than the 7mmSAUM from the reviews I have seen on it. If Hornady sells brass with Lapua quality for this thing, that could be a huge advantage.

All- Thanks for all the continued input, this thread has been very worthwhile, and the info is much appreciated, sounds like a lot of valuable experience between you all.

 

[barnesuser28]

the 7mm rsaum is a great cartridge but remember brass is very hard to find and nosler custom brass is probably the best available in the saum and it aintt cheap..... but neither is Lapua . You should run the ballistics with the 195 berger with its .407 G7 BC. Its impressive! You cant go wrong either way, good luck!

 

[NEPUT17]

ooooh....now we are talking! I wonder what a realistic velocity for the berger 195's from the 7mmLRM would be??

I think that the 7SAUM is a good pick, and Im sure that the 7LRM has an increase in recoil. Question is, how much more, and what's the gains? gotta wonder with the 195's if the velocity gain is worth the added recoil, and what the added recoil would be??

So, I saw the prior post about recoil, showing a chart that allows adjustment to determine recoil, but it seemed to be caliber specific, and didnt show the 7SAUM or 7LRM. Anyone know of a way to determine recoil, based off of info that you could determine/predict before building a rifle? Seems like the 195 berger might be the new majic bullet, and worth building a gun around, depending on what you need to get it running 2950+ (to be a clear better choice over 180's @3050ish).

Anyone know if anyone else other than gunwerks is chambering anything in 7LRM? Gunwerks seems like they may be a bit to proud of their product when it comes to pricing. I like the concept, but 6K+ for a rifle is unreasonable IMHO.

If I stuck with the 7SAUM, and tried pushing 195's instead of 180's, all other things being equal (barrel length etc), how much less muzzle velocity could I expect, and how do you determine this (other than range fire data obviously)

 

[barnesuser28]

I am throating my 284 win for the 195 berger, i think i can get 2700-2750 fps with 180s from my 24" barrel and hopefully around 2600 fps with the 195.

At the above velocities the 195 has approx 7" less wind drift at 1k than the 180 does.

read the first post right here http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...-eol-hybrid-hunting-bullet-85792/index23.html

 

[midnightmalloy]

ooooh....now we are talking! I wonder what a realistic velocity for the berger 195's from the 7mmLRM would be??

I think that the 7SAUM is a good pick, and Im sure that the 7LRM has an increase in recoil. Question is, how much more, and what's the gains? gotta wonder with the 195's if the velocity gain is worth the added recoil, and what the added recoil would be??

So, I saw the prior post about recoil, showing a chart that allows adjustment to determine recoil, but it seemed to be caliber specific, and didnt show the 7SAUM or 7LRM. Anyone know of a way to determine recoil, based off of info that you could determine/predict before building a rifle? Seems like the 195 berger might be the new majic bullet, and worth building a gun around, depending on what you need to get it running 2950+ (to be a clear better choice over 180's @3050ish).

Anyone know if anyone else other than gunwerks is chambering anything in 7LRM? Gunwerks seems like they may be a bit to proud of their product when it comes to pricing. I like the concept, but 6K+ for a rifle is unreasonable IMHO.

If I stuck with the 7SAUM, and tried pushing 195's instead of 180's, all other things being equal (barrel length etc), how much less muzzle velocity could I expect, and how do you determine this (other than range fire data obviously)

If u dont want to buy a full up gunwerks rifle you can supply the parts and they can just smith it. Their gunsmithing prices are the same as most anyone. Len at longrangerifles has a reamer. The brass is cheaper and better than nosler and if you wanna push the new 195's to 2950 and feed out of an ai mag then the 7lrm or the 7mm rouge are probably the best options. If u dont want to deal with forming then a 7lrm would be the trick. No belt either and a .330 neck length (i think thats right) so all the makings of a great longrange cartridge. Longer neck, cheaper/better brass, more boiler room, and feeds no problem out of a ai mag you will be good to go. Im loading the 180 hybrida to 3.425 coal so the 195 would fit just fine to the ai mag length. Once these 195's come out u can be sure i will be loading them up.

 

[captacademy]

Just saw an add on this site where someone is selling a Gunwerks rifle, 7Lrm for 2k under value if your looking at that option.

 

[Skyking]

If your looking at a wildcat I just got my 7/300 win mag. Broz on the forum has built 3 of them so far. Lots of info here.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/anyone-own-7mm-300-win-mag-51404/

The 7mm Practical. A Practical Magnum.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/new-7mm-wildcat-7mm-rogue-95954/


New 7saum Video to a mile.

http://http://vimeo.com/54058085

 

[midnightmalloy]

here is a link to the page that has the info for the 7 LRM.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/my-new-gunwerks-lr-1000-7lrm-rifle-left-hand-101736/
for you this is what I would say, you can always load more concervatively but you can never load too hot. Yes the 7 SAUM is great (the 7 saum or the 7 WSM were what I was going to go with until I heard of the 7 LRM) but has no advantage over the 7 LRM.

Lets compare:
brass
Nosler 7 SAUM-$2.20 per piece
Gunwerks 7 LRM- $1.25
(I have used both brands and the gunwerks stuff is much better, nosler is pretty soft)

Good Dies (for comparison the same setup as it came with my 7LRM)
7 SAUM- FL Match grade dies $75 + $20 bushing +Custom seating stem $14= Total $109
7 LRM -(All of these parts are included) $150

Every other part of the gun/ammo will be exactly the same. so the difference in price is literally the brass and dies.

If you were to buy 200 pieces of brass and the dies, here is what it would cost for each:

7 SAUM-
Brass-200x$2.20=$440
Dies Total package-$109
Total=$549

7LRM
Brass-200x $1.25=$250
Dies Total Package-$150
Total=$400

More powder capacity, less stress on the brass, brass that comes anealled, longer neck, less money for components, and the same cost of gunsmithing, whats not to love about the 7 LRM?

if you dont want gunwerks to do the gunsmithing i know len here at LRH has a reamer and can probably do the smithing for you. But to clarify gunwerks only charges $250 to chamber and fit a barrel which is the same as most anyone else for a magnum. if its not the same (for a top end gunsmith that is) its dam close. so their prices are not out of whack. Gunwerks has full up setups that include much more than any other smith (therefore the extra cost) but will not turn down your business if you supply the parts and just want your rifle smithed. The perception of Gunwerks is that they are overpriced but once most people look apples to apples they change their mind.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

Malloy,

What are you getting, life wise, out of your Gunwerks brass? I do agree that Nosler brass seems to be soft, uniform yes, but soft. I'm running good ole RP brass in my 7saum among other cartridges. It takes more prep work, but it will take more abuse than the Nosler brass that i've worked with (& it's cheaper too, IF you can find it).

I see the same dilemma for both cartridges, Brass. The saum has both Rem & Nosler making brass & both seem very hard to come by. The LRM has (whomever) making the Gunwerks brass as the only manufacturer which COULD turn into an issue down the road.

I think they are both good choices with the same cons. either way you go. Stock up on brass every chance you get.


t

 

[midnightmalloy]

Malloy,

What are you getting, life wise, out of your Gunwerks brass? I do agree that Nosler brass seems to be soft, uniform yes, but soft. I'm running good ole RP brass in my 7saum among other cartridges. It takes more prep work, but it will take more abuse than the Nosler brass that i've worked with (& it's cheaper too, IF you can find it).

I see the same dilemma for both cartridges, Brass. The saum has both Rem & Nosler making brass & both seem very hard to come by. The LRM has (whomever) making the Gunwerks brass as the only manufacturer which COULD turn into an issue down the road.

I think they are both good choices with the same cons. either way you go. Stock up on brass every chance you get.


t

I havent had a chance to wear any of it out yet. I did talk to mike at gunwerks and he said that they were getting many loading's out of the brass and it was on par with lapua. Their brass looks just like the lapua brass i have for my dads 243. The stuff is very uniform. Brass is always an issue unless you shoot something that is real common but whats the fun in that. The load I am using isnt too hot and neither is the gunwerks loaded stuff. I could push probably another 80FPS out of it but I just havent done it. I have matrix 190's, berger 180vlds and 180 hybrids so I might just load up some of each to test for max loads in my gun but havent due to having no time for anything.

I bought 200 pieces of brass with mine and if I get as many loads as rich (elkaholic) does with his necked down hornady 375 ruger brass (10 loadings he said) I will need a new barrel before i need new brass.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

10 loads per case would be great! I'm not that optimistic with my RP or Nosler but I can cross my fingers....

I would have to say that would be a great accomplishment for Hornady.


t

 

[midnightmalloy]

10 loads per case would be great! I'm not that optimistic with my RP or Nosler but I can cross my fingers....

I would have to say that would be a great accomplishment for Hornady.


t

when I had nosler brass for my 280AI it only lasted maybe 3 loadings and the loads werent maxed out at all. when doing load testing if I fired a hot load the primer pockets were lose after just one firing. Kind of crap for $2 a piece. Nosler having soft brass is well covered by many people. Hornadys new brass has been doing well in certain cartridges. I suspect after some research that Hornady is farming out its brass manufactuing to multiple sources so I think the quality is not with all their brass but I havent got any hard evidence for this. I will probably not buy nosler brass again. If any of the cartidges I have is being made by lapua then thats where im going.