Bushing die question...

[Monteria]

I'm sure the answer here is going to make me feel dumb, but...

I just bought my first bushing die. For 30 years I've been using standard FL dies. For the last several I have been using a mandrel expander to tune neck interface. That works fine, but I decided that eliminating a step was worth a shot.

Anyway, I ordered a forsters bushing die with 3 bushings.

Everything looks good except... the decapping stem has an expander ball on it.

Doesn't a fixed expander ball defeat the purpose of a bushing die?

What am I missing here?

 

[Dmagna]

Depends on if it changes your neck diameter. If you resize and the ball changes the neck diameter then take if off. If it doesn't then don't worry about it

 

[Monteria]

It definately would. That's why I am confused by its presence. Whats the point of going to a bishing die if you still have a fixed size expander ball?

Never mind, I'm just going to see if it can be removed.

 

[Mikecr]

First, you should consider why pretty much all sizing dies utilize neck expansion.
Then consider why your situation is any different than it has been for everyone else, in over 100yrs.

 

[AZShooter]

Regarding the sizer ball in your bushing die set: you can either grind it down or substitute a smaller one so you can decap. Redding bushing die sets come with two sizer balls one being small to hold the decapping pin only.

This is why your box came with that sizer ball:

The sizer ball in combination with a bushing die would allow you to use a bushing to minimally reduce the neck outside diameter. This would be followed by the ball to open the neck's inside for a proper interference fit/neck tension. You could use your mandrel after sizing with a bushing, you should get the same end result.

If you use the bushing alone to achieve reduced neck OD for proper neck tension, it can cause a range of neck tensions unless the necks are turned. (I am assuming the brass in question has been fired the same number of times and / or it has been annealed)

The use of a bushing die is better than using a standard FL die which must reduce the OD of the neck for any thickness brass on the market so the sizer ball can open the neck back up for proper neck tension. The issue with using a FL die is potential overworking aka work hardening of the brass in the neck. Both systems can yield great accuracy. Brass life suffers with the FL sizing.

You didn't mention body sizing. This can be another topic.......

 

[Rob01]

It definately would. That's why I am confused by its presence. Whats the point of going to a bishing die if you still have a fixed size expander ball?

Never mind, I'm just going to see if it can be removed.

You should be able to remove it and there should be another smaller one that won't touch the inside of the neck in the box. I have a few sets of different bushing FL dies and they all came with smaller balls just to hold the decapping pin in place.

 

[243winxb]

If your not neck turning brass, the expander is needed.

The bushing just needs to provide a slignt drag when the expander is pulled thru the lubed neck. Size only 1/2 of the neck.

My Redding Type S FL bushing die can be used with & without the expannder.

 

[Rob01]

If your not neck turning brass, the expander is needed.

That is not true. I have been using bushing dies over 20 years in multiple calibers and never turned a neck and do not use an expander.

 

[Monteria]

Forster expander balls are higher on the decapper stem. The decaping pin is independent of the expander. I did remove it earlier.

And yes, all my necks are turned. I'll be testing with different neck interfaces via bushing with no expander at all.

Steve

 

[Roughrice]

I just picked up an OLD... and I mean OLD set of RCBS 284 Win dies in an old original cardboard box.
I cleaned them up and the insides are slick and shiny as new.
As I was cleaning and freeing up the FL sizing die... I realized it has a very long stem that can pull the expander ball way up to the top into the neck. It will not de-cap in this position but I de-cap on another press anyway.
Sooo... I adjusted for a while and to my surprise, I can get the ball to be drawn thru the neck just after you begin to raise the press handle.
Works just like a Forster die.

I sized and loaded 3 of my known hunting rounds to try out.
I had .002 or less runout!
This looked very good to me because I normally use Redding "S" bushing FL sizing die and get about the same runout.

I went to my range and shot the 3 rounds @ 300 yards and they impacted a 2" spread on the same water line.

I'm happy with my old die find!