Bullets With Grooves

RockyMtnMT said:
I would assume it was an effort to increase range by increasing velocity.
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Looks like that's probably it, I forgot they originally were to be filled with grease too. I also forgot how revolutionary it was with straight line penetration. And how gruesome the descriptions were, oof. Yeah, grooves work.

My buddy is much more experienced than me and he gave up on copper years ago after some bad experiences. I tried to explain drive bands vs grooves to him and it just didn't work, even though he's shot brass solids and everything. Anyway I got to show him about drive bands last night on an absolute hammer with some calipers and it was like the proverbial bulb turning on over his head.

I told him it's not a new idea, I showed him an unexploded artillery projectile I have from 1918 and he was like ooooooooh, right.
How do you shove a steel bullet down steel rifling? put copper drive bands on it.
 
I didn't think so. Nobody knows what Parabolic Drag is, but companies claim the reduce it, HENCE PDR, Parabolic Drag Reduction.
 
asd9055 said:
BTW I like to know what PDR is, how is estimated/calculated, and what effect it has on bullets
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Perfect. We designed our driveband on a parabolic curve. Use that same curve over the top of the band and down between the bands. The main design purpose of our drive band is to minimize the amount of baring surface that makes contact on the outside diameter of the bullet. By creating the drive band on a radius it gains size as the rifling engages the drive band giving the the drive band plenty of meat to handle the stress of twist. The valleys of the drivebands leave room to deposit the engraved drivebands. Also decreasing engraving force as well as fouling issues. Because of the parabolic radius we are able to oversize the bullet caliber without increasing pressure. As a result we are able seal the bore of large or loose bore rifles without increasing pressure in tight bore rifles. The end result is a pure copper bullet that solves the pressure and accuracy issues, that have always plaged non lead bullets, better than any other design. Having a driveband with a smooth radius transition just makes sense for ballistic drag compared to square or angled drivebands.

Since I had never heard of parabolic induced drag, until today (which appears to be a phenomenon caused by the lift on airplane wings), it was not designed to reduce such an effect. PDR is an acronym for Parabolic Drag Reduction. Parabolic refers to the shape of the drivebands not the airplane wing drag thing. Drag stand for just that. And Reduction stands for reducing. As in reducing friction in the bore and in flight. More so than that Parabolic Drag Reduction technology sounds way cool!

Take a while to write between rounds of UFC!
 
asd9055 said:
Stop playing games. Thats all. I only saw this because I was quoted.
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No one is playing games bud. Seriously. You're projecting your emotions & reactions onto other posters. Read back over the thread when things calm down and see how you assumed and elevated something that wasn't there.

Let's keep on track. I'm curious about the parabolic drag thing too. Gonna have to study into that myself. Petey308 mentioned it and I was hoping he could explain it himself. Generally, if someone knows what they're talking about, they don't feel threatened by questions.

Need more time to look into it myself.
 
It's a feature that I think is important with homogeneous bullets. Being longer due to lacking density produces inherent issues regarding increased engraving forces, fouling, overall friction in the bore, etc

Now I would like to talk about this. I think what was implied is that copper bullets are longer for their weight due to being 20% less dense than lead by volume. I am not sure how that translates into a blanket statement implying there is more engraving pressure, copper fouling, and more overall friction.

A copper bullet of identical form to a cup and core bullet will have more or less engraving pressure depending on the bore diameter of the rifle. If a bore is loose the copper bullet would fail to seal the bore well resulting in lower pressure. If the bore is tight it would result in higher pressure. Has zero to do with material density and everything to do with malleability.

Copper bullets have more copper fouling because of material density. Again not true. Copper fouling varies from bullet to bullet regardless of weather or not it has a lead core. Copper fouling is ultimately caused by the roughness of barrel and the alloy of the jacket or mono. Nothing to do with copper weighing 20% less by volume.

More overall friction from mono bullets due to material density. Again not true for the same reasons listed for the first two.

I am very open to discussing this and I have no intent on shutting down this thread. The longer this thread continues the more information people will get regarding mono bullets and the blanket false statements, about them, that are passed on as fact.
 
Northkill said:
No one is playing games bud. Seriously. You're projecting your emotions & reactions onto other posters. Read back over the thread when things calm down and see how you assumed and elevated something that wasn't there.

Let's keep on track. I'm curious about the parabolic drag thing too. Gonna have to study into that myself. Petey308 mentioned it and I was hoping he could explain it himself. Generally, if someone knows what they're talking about, they don't feel threatened by questions.

Need more time to look into it myself.
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I don't need to read anything. I stop follwing this thread. Like I said, only get notified when I am quoted.
So, like when I see a thread on Hammers, I do not join, when you hammer disciples see a thread on something else, leave it alone. You are just making things worse. Like there is more than Browning and Remington, there is also more to hammers, enough to go around. The more your master interjects himself, the more people walk away.
have a good day
Over and out!
 
asd9055 said:
I don't need to read anything. I stop follwing this thread. Like I said, only get notified when I am quoted.
So, like when I see a thread on Hammers, I do not join, when you hammer disciples see a thread on something else, leave it alone. You are just making things worse. Like there is more than Browning and Remington, there is also more to hammers, enough to go around. The more your master interjects himself, the more people walk away.
have a good day
Over and out!
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Sad bud. Cancel culture got you. No hammer disciple here. I told you privately that I shoot other monos, Bergers, and Scenars. I'm out for truth. I want to learn. You don't get it acting like this, ad9055.
 
Northkill said:
Sad bud. Cancel culture got you. No hammer disciple here. I told you privately that I shoot other monos, Bergers, and Scenars. I'm out for truth. I want to learn. You don't get it acting like this, ad9055.
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Funny, isnt that the kettle calling the pot black? Cancel culture, hmm, let's cancel anything non-hammer
Here is the original bullet with grooves. Go in peace. I have nothng more to say!
minieball.JPG
 
Steve, I've never discussed your bullet design with you at at any length, but I'm curious why you do the multiple short radiuses rather than a smooth answer to the problem like CE's and the Badlands? Serious question from Mr. Curious...
 

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