Bullets vs Tracking Game

[WYOHTF]

I like these kinds of threads we're we get to tell the truth.
I've guided a fair bit in my life and have seen many normal 30-100yd blood trails, probably Just as many that were bang-flop. I have seen and used or been around most conventional calibers and cup and core bullets out there in almost 40 years of hunting. I know one thing for sure, Speer bullets in any flavor don't cut it for me as a big game bullet.
The worst train reck I ever had with a bullet was a Barnes X bullet from a .308 at about 45 yards.
He took two right perfect behind the shoulder. I had jumped him and he froze when I cow called.
He turned and headed down slope hard. At the time my son was 12 and I was trying to teach him patients and we sat down and had a snack.
About twenty minutes had passed. We started tracking I in yellow pine needles and moss and rock. There was good blood
About 400 yards later the trail had taken us into some dog hair fur. He had bedded down in the middle of it. There was enough frothy blood in the fir needles to squish out of the ground. Not a drop of blood or a track to be found after about 50' from that bed.
I called my brother and a friend who are both very accomplished outdoorsmen. Us and are kids looked for that bull till dark, we had a lab that has found game before. I looked for two more days. Nothing. Punched my tag and called the game warden and told him about it.
He said he would fly it after a week and look for birds.
That bull healed up or died in some dark hole somewhere. Bugs the crap out of me to this day.
Haven't used a Barnes since
Just my experience
My favorites are SST, Interlock, Partition, and Swift A frames. And Federal Fusions
In the right cartridge and velocity they all work good for me

 

[biff's reloading]

I don't know to much about muzzleloaders what is long range for a traditional? 150-200?

Well, assuming it lights the pan powder, and assuming that lights the charge, and assuming that happens within a second or 2 before either you or the deer flinches, I'd say 150 yards is about as far as I'd expect to be able to hit a deer with a 50cal flintlock and actually kill it. But I cant remember the last time I even had an opportunity that far in late season. I have a 50 that was my grandpas, and a 62cal smoothbore I built 15 years ago from a navy arms barrel and a bucket of spare t/c parts. 75 yards is definitely a long shot with it. Long range Is kinda off the table in a thicket with a foot of snow and a flintlock. it's fun.

 

[Greyfox]

I don't know to much about muzzleloaders what is long range for a traditional? 150-200?

A traditional flintlock….125 is considered a long shot.. Most game is shot 25-75 yards

 

[WahooYahoo]

Can't give you specifics about bullets for I've only shot a few pigs (6mm 105 VLD), prefer the knife. But I will say that they are my favorite animal to hunt. I'll take pigs over elk anyday and I live in Wyoming. Haven't been in a while because I'm tired of paying top dollar for a guide or property access. Go get em!

Well sir, I live in Texas and have wild hogs at my disposal. We should work something out. No guide needed. Your elk for may pigs!

 

[nwhunter]

I have been deer hunting for 56 years now. My go to shot has been behind shoulder 1/3 of the way up. I have killed deer with calibers from 243 through 45/70 and killed elk with 7x57, 30/06, 300 Weatherby, 338-win mag and a couple with a 50-caliber muzzle loader throwing 410 grain buffalo bullets with 100 grains on pyrodex.
The only time I have ever shot an animal in the shoulder was with the muzzle loader. It will break the shoulder and knock an elk down. I have seen people lung shot elk with a muzzleloader and with no expansion and slow speeds they don't bleed much and can be hard to follow in a herd. I have followed lung shot deer quite a distance and helped other hunters find their own deer lung shot that they had given up on finding. I don't like leaving wounded game, mine or anybody else's.
I have probably shot over 40 deer through the lungs, and most don't go far. I have seen well shot mule deer go quite a ways at times, usually big, older deer. Strangely the elk I have shot behind the shoulder have never gone far, always less than 50 yards as I recall.
I have probably shot a dozen deer through the neck and they have always fell where they were shot. I have heard horror stories of other hunter's neck shots and following deer for long distances.
A neck shot for me is not a shot I would use for a long-distance shot. I used to hunt in Idaho for mule deer and one hunter in our party always lined up his shot on the shoulder to try to ensure hitting his deer. I once saw him shoot the foot off a deer holding on the top of the shoulder and he was zeroed at 300 yards shooting a 30/06 with 165gr bt Sierra game king. He finally got that deer, but it went a long way. Personally, I would rather shoot low and miss than maim an animal.

 

[WildRose]

A neck shot for me is not a shot I would use for a long-distance shot. I used to hunt in Idaho for mule deer and one hunter in our party always lined up his shot on the shoulder to try to ensure hitting his deer. I once saw him shoot the foot off a deer holding on the top of the shoulder and he was zeroed at 300 yards shooting a 30/06 with 165gr bt Sierra game king. He finally got that deer, but it went a long way. Personally, I would rather shoot low and miss than maim an animal.

He missed his POA by about 3-4' then. If you're shot is that far off hitting a foot is a literal 1:1,000,000 shot and you're as likely to hit a leg or foot then no matter where the original POA was.

 

[nwhunter]

He missed his POA by about 3-4' then. If you're shot is that far off hitting a foot is a literal 1:1,000,000 shot and you're as likely to hit a leg or foot then no matter where the original POA was.

As best I can recall he must have been more like 550 yards from deer and just misjudged his distance, this was before the era of range finders.

 

[Goldengun]

I really don't understand the fascination with dropping game in their tracks. Although there are some rare instances where it can really matter, I absolutely don't mind if a deer runs out of sight. Tracking is one of the great experiences of hunting. With a good shot, I've never had one go too far, it's just a death sprint. Never used monos, yet. .223 to .308.

 

[Lou270]

Most deer I shoot don't go very far and usually get exits unless using berger which frag. Oddly the buck I shot last year with 150 gr sierra gk btsp out of 30-06 went well over 100 yards in the thick brush which is longest run I have had in a while. Mature buck but not big since central TX. Broadside lung shot but Sporadic blood trail. Deer can be tough. Have to track a lot more pigs as #1 shoot more, and #2 they are tougher. Since I use them as bullet tests I shoot them to try and get 1 or both shoulders. In general, I would say I get best blood trails from bonded bullets (accubond, scirocco). Cup and core dont generally exit on the big ones and though monos do the exits are not as big. Not noticed caliber making that big of difference either.

Lou

 

[Mike Matteson]

I prefer heart lung shots. The vertical line that's create by the front shoulder is the magic line for me. I have taken deer and other animals quartering towards me or going away. I use Nosler BT and Accubond. Tried at partition 100gr in a 25/06. It made one entire side blood shot. Never used them again. I use weight from 120, 165, and 200 grain bullet in Nostler depending on caliber being used. My range is 500yds.
Heart shots I have had to track them over hundred yards. Sometime not much of a blood trail with my 25/06.
I have hit in the liver a few time. Shot one deer twice. First shot in the heart, 2nd in the liver. I have lost I believe one deer, Hit it in the guts. Track all afternoon to dark. He wasn't leaving much in track at any time. I have track lots of other in my years. Most I have found, but some I didn't. I hate it when I lose an animal, and most being somebody elses. I have taken the time to help others to track there animal, even if I didn't know them.

 

[Turpentine21]

Between my brother and I we have accounted for well over 1000 kills very conservatively on whitetail deer and hogs. I started shoulder shooting deer 35 years ago after I got tired of tracking deer shot behind the shoulder in inhospitable terrain. Where I hunt if a deer goes 40 yards he can be very tough to recover. We have lots of water, alligators, and briars thick enough you have to crawl. Hogs are generally shot in the lower ear or head/neck junction. For a long time all I shot was Remington 130 grain corelokts from a 270 win. My brother shot a 7mm mag but has gone back to 270 and 6.5 Grendel. With a properly executed high shoulder shot the deer goes nowhere. Pulled forward and the deer is hit in the base of the neck. Pulled rearward the deer is hit in the crease and will usually run dead on his feet for an unknown distance. usually 30-100 yards. Pulled low at least one shoulder is disabled but many times both are. The deer may travel or push but not far at all. I'd rather have a dead deer with a little more meat damage than a dead deer I have to fight to recover. We have had to track many that were shot behind the shoulder with pretty much any bullet and caliber you care to name. We did have some issues with very early ballistic tips and Winchester ballistic silver tips with the older aluminum looking tip. They would blow up At high speed and not penetrate. Also had some long And weird tracking jobs for a friend shooting 300 Win mag with 150 and 165 corelokt. My favorite bullet for big deer and hogs is the Nosler accubond and I also had really good luck with the Hornady interbond but it's a hard to find bullet. For depredation I shoot Hornady Eldm's in 123, Grendel, 147 or 140 in 6.5-06, 168 Amax in 308AR, and 150 accubond or 168 eldm from my 308 bolt with 26" barrel. If the farmer wants them dead in the field and doesn't mind recovery damage to crops I shoot shoulder. If he wants them out of the field dead with no crop damage they are shot behind the shoulder In the crease or pocket. We have had zero trouble with the Eldm used in this capacity but we are not shooting heavily muscled bucks.
As for hogs if you aren't going to shoot ear or neck be sure to shoot them no more than 1/2 way up the body and tight to the front leg. Preferably quartered away slightly. The shield on a mature male is thick. Hogs hit high bleed very little and can go a long way before expiring. For shots like this a tough bullet that will exit and help with a blood trail can be a help. But a heart shot hog generally won't travel far.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Between my brother and I we have accounted for well over 1000 kills very conservatively on whitetail deer and hogs. I started shoulder shooting deer 35 years ago after I got tired of tracking deer shot behind the shoulder in inhospitable terrain. Where I hunt if a deer goes 40 yards he can be very tough to recover. We have lots of water, alligators, and briars thick enough you have to crawl. Hogs are generally shot in the lower ear or head/neck junction. For a long time all I shot was Remington 130 grain corelokts from a 270 win. My brother shot a 7mm mag but has gone back to 270 and 6.5 Grendel. With a properly executed high shoulder shot the deer goes nowhere. Pulled forward and the deer is hit in the base of the neck. Pulled rearward the deer is hit in the crease and will usually run dead on his feet for an unknown distance. usually 30-100 yards. Pulled low at least one shoulder is disabled but many times both are. The deer may travel or push but not far at all. I'd rather have a dead deer with a little more meat damage than a dead deer I have to fight to recover. We have had to track many that were shot behind the shoulder with pretty much any bullet and caliber you care to name. We did have some issues with very early ballistic tips and Winchester ballistic silver tips with the older aluminum looking tip. They would blow up At high speed and not penetrate. Also had some long And weird tracking jobs for a friend shooting 300 Win mag with 150 and 165 corelokt. My favorite bullet for big deer and hogs is the Nosler accubond and I also had really good luck with the Hornady interbond but it's a hard to find bullet. For depredation I shoot Hornady Eldm's in 123, Grendel, 147 or 140 in 6.5-06, 168 Amax in 308AR, and 150 accubond or 168 eldm from my 308 bolt with 26" barrel. If the farmer wants them dead in the field and doesn't mind recovery damage to crops I shoot shoulder. If he wants them out of the field dead with no crop damage they are shot behind the shoulder In the crease or pocket. We have had zero trouble with the Eldm used in this capacity but we are not shooting heavily muscled bucks.
As for hogs if you aren't going to shoot ear or neck be sure to shoot them no more than 1/2 way up the body and tight to the front leg. Preferably quartered away slightly. The shield on a mature male is thick. Hogs hit high bleed very little and can go a long way before expiring. For shots like this a tough bullet that will exit and help with a blood trail can be a help. But a heart shot hog generally won't travel far.

Fair enough on where you hunt at. Me it's a different area and don't have to watch out others that might bit you except for snakes. just the same they can be hard to track. I do agree with the BT or Accubond bullets. I have used them for a great many years. Start with their lead points in a 120gr for a 25/06. They don't make them anymore. I have switch to heavier calibers, because I hunt elk at the sametime. now. So I feel my 25/06 is a little light.

 

[Turpentine21]

Fair enough on where you hunt at. Me it's a different area and don't have to watch out others that might bit you except for snakes. just the same they can be hard to track. I do agree with the BT or Accubond bullets. I have used them for a great many years. Start with their lead points in a 120gr for a 25/06. They don't make them anymore. I have switch to heavier calibers, because I hunt elk at the sametime. now. So I feel my 25/06 is a little light.

My brother is trying the 145 eldx in 270 right now with decent results.
I've never gotten into the mono or copper bullets. Just not something I'm interested in though I have witnessed kills with them. I'll stick with the accubond Or conventional bullets.
Rattlesnakes, Cottonmouths, Copperheads, briars, and alligators can make tracking interesting. Plus our coyotes have gotten to where they will home in on a rifle shot. In certain areas when you shoot you better get down and go or youll have nothing but a skeleton shortly. Especially if the animal makes it to cover. I've watched them get on a kill at night with a thermal inside of 10 minutes on several occasions. They come in circling and winding like a bird dog. They know what a rifle shot means. Kind of like ringing a dinner bell.

 

[Mike Matteson]

My brother is trying the 145 eldx in 270 right now with decent results.
I've never gotten into the mono or copper bullets. Just not something I'm interested in though I have witnessed kills with them. I'll stick with the accubond Or conventional bullets.
Rattlesnakes, Cottonmouths, Copperheads, briars, and alligators can make tracking interesting. Plus our coyotes have gotten to where they will home in on a rifle shot. In certain areas when you shoot you better get down and go or youll have nothing but a skeleton shortly. Especially if the animal makes it to cover. I've watched them get on a kill at night with a thermal inside of 10 minutes on several occasions. They come in circling and winding like a bird dog. They know what a rifle shot means. Kind of like ringing a dinner bell.

Got them well trained.