I'm looking forward to the 175gr Tipped GameKing (TGK) out of a .270 (Win?) test, too. Thanks for doing this & posting your results.
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Bullet testing, again....
- Thread starter yorke-1
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The 270s are getting shot out of a 270/338 RUM improved wildcat. Left to right is a 270 Win, 270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby, 27 Boondoogle.
It's a bit bigger than a 270 Win. LOL
The interesting test with the 270 is that I have one barrel that's an 8.5" twist and a second one that's a 7" twist. The goal is to see if there's a difference in how the bullets behave from the different twists.
I haven't yet on this round of testing but I did previously in some other testing I did. I'll probably try and do that some of the bullets that I have a good supply of. Shooting reduced loads at mid range made some of the bullets appear questionably stable and not perform well. Any low impact velocity tests I do this time will have to be at extended ranges to give all the bullets a fair chance to perform.
I didn't want to wait to test the SuperBuldozer bullets Codyadams sent, so I bumped the 6.5mm testing back on the schedule and went to the 338s this time. All bullets were fired from an 18" barreled 338/375 Ruger specialty pistol. You'll have to excuse the "champagne gel block" thing that I have going on with a few of the blocks. I was short on time and didn't have time to throw the gel blocks in the oven after dumping the gel in the mold. That lets air bubbles get trapped in the gel. The approximate impact velocities and retained bullet weight are written on the gel blocks, with the exception of the 285gr ELDm, I spaced and wrote the wrong velocity on that one and it should be 2570 fps, not the 2270 on the block.
The test line up from this trip out: 225 TTSX, 250gr SB II, 260gr Hammer Hunter, 270gr SB I, 285gr ELDm
225gr TTSX
This bullet exited the gel at roughly 35" of penetration. It appears in the video that the bullet had slowed down dramatically by the time it exited the gel, so I don't imagine it would have traveled much farther. I also assumed that it looked like every other TTSX bullet I've recovered, so it didn't seem necessary to shoot additional rounds to try and recover a bullet.
250gr SB II
This bullet surprised me with it's relatively shallow penetration of 24.5". The damage appears substantial though and the weight retention was very good. I didn't know going into this that the SuperBuldozers are intended to retain the majority of their weight and not necessarily shed petals. With that in mind, the bullet appears to have performed exactly how it should have.
260gr Hammer Hunter
The first bullet I fired exited the side of the second block at about 27". I fired a second bullet into the gel later on, which was recovered at 36.5". Performance was consistent with all the other Hammers I've shot
270gr SB I
The 270 SuperBuldozer I penetrated 27.5" before exiting the side of the block on the first shot and a second bullet was recovered at 37" of penetration. I was really impressed with the penetration of this bullet at the low impact velocity. I was surprised that the heavy bullet at lower velocity out penetrated the lighter 250gr SB by such a significant amount.
285gr ELDm
The recovered 285 ELDm weighed 160.4gr and penetrated 18.5". Lead core bullets give some of the most spectacular impacts in the gel! LOL Penetration wasn't very impressive, but I have to assume that this bullet would have really done a number on anything it hit. Expansion and weight retention were perfectly in line with all the other ELDm and ELDx bullets I've tested and I can see why guys like them.
The test line up from this trip out: 225 TTSX, 250gr SB II, 260gr Hammer Hunter, 270gr SB I, 285gr ELDm
225gr TTSX
This bullet exited the gel at roughly 35" of penetration. It appears in the video that the bullet had slowed down dramatically by the time it exited the gel, so I don't imagine it would have traveled much farther. I also assumed that it looked like every other TTSX bullet I've recovered, so it didn't seem necessary to shoot additional rounds to try and recover a bullet.
250gr SB II
This bullet surprised me with it's relatively shallow penetration of 24.5". The damage appears substantial though and the weight retention was very good. I didn't know going into this that the SuperBuldozers are intended to retain the majority of their weight and not necessarily shed petals. With that in mind, the bullet appears to have performed exactly how it should have.
260gr Hammer Hunter
The first bullet I fired exited the side of the second block at about 27". I fired a second bullet into the gel later on, which was recovered at 36.5". Performance was consistent with all the other Hammers I've shot
270gr SB I
The 270 SuperBuldozer I penetrated 27.5" before exiting the side of the block on the first shot and a second bullet was recovered at 37" of penetration. I was really impressed with the penetration of this bullet at the low impact velocity. I was surprised that the heavy bullet at lower velocity out penetrated the lighter 250gr SB by such a significant amount.
285gr ELDm
The recovered 285 ELDm weighed 160.4gr and penetrated 18.5". Lead core bullets give some of the most spectacular impacts in the gel! LOL Penetration wasn't very impressive, but I have to assume that this bullet would have really done a number on anything it hit. Expansion and weight retention were perfectly in line with all the other ELDm and ELDx bullets I've tested and I can see why guys like them.
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The 270s are getting shot out of a 270/338 RUM improved wildcat. Left to right is a 270 Win, 270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby, 27 Boondoogle.
It's a bit bigger than a 270 Win. LOL
The interesting test with the 270 is that I have one barrel that's an 8.5" twist and a second one that's a 7" twist. The goal is to see if there's a difference in how the bullets behave from the different twists.
I haven't yet on this round of testing but I did previously in some other testing I did. I'll probably try and do that some of the bullets that I have a good supply of. Shooting reduced loads at mid range made some of the bullets appear questionably stable and not perform well. Any low impact velocity tests I do this time will have to be at extended ranges to give all the bullets a fair chance to perform.
Yorke when you stated that at mid range some of the bullets appears to be questionably stable and not perform well what do you mean and what did they do? Also what ranges and impact speeds was that?
Many thanks
When bullets aren't properly stabilized, they tend to tumble on impact. They might shoot well on paper, but they won't perform well on game. It's mostly tied to barrel twist, and to a lesser degree by velocity and elevation. I saw a lot of "banana bullets" in my previous testing when I would run reduced velocity loads in the minimum recommended twist for a bullet. I saw this more with the really long copper bullets where I'd dig out the bullet and it would have a significant bend in it instead of expanding. Berger's twist rate calculator is a great tool for getting an idea about which bullets will properly stabilize in your gun.
Interesting results from today's testing. I was out shooting 4 different 6.5mm Hammer bullets testing low velocity (under 2400 fps) impacts. I did my best to keep the impact velocities of each bullet relatively close by adjusting my range, not the muzzle velocity of the loads. The gun is a 1:8" twist 6.5 Grendel with an 18" barrel. This particular barrel is a Blackhole barrel with polygonal rifling. These are the muzzle velocities and SF of each load shot:
The 85gr bullet penetrated 20" and curved slightly down and right. It retained roughly 30% of the nose petals.
The 99gr bullet penetrated roughly 18" with he first shot exiting the left sided of the second block after changing course and the second one stopped at 18.5" after veering up and left. The recovered bullet looked very similar to the recovered 85gr bullet. I switched to the 99gr HH in my Grendel a while back trying to step up the velocity from the 130gr SH I was shooting in there previously.
The 124gr bullets shot terribly, 3 MOA at 165 yards. The one that I got to hit the block expanded, then curved up and exited the second block at 20"
The 130gr SH is the bullet I had been shooting the Grendel prior to switching to the 99gr HH about a year ago. After my first shot in the gel with a 2410 fps impact, I was surprised by what I saw. The 130gr SH with a relatively mild 2410 fps impact velocity penetrated 48" of gel before exiting the third block. The penetration path was perfectly straight. I was so impressed by this that I moved back so that the impact velocity was roughly 2200 fps to see how that would impact performance. Again, the bullet penetrated 48" of gel before exiting the third block. I moved back one more time to my bench and fired the last shot with an impact velocity of 2150 fps, and go the same result. I made a separate video of these impacts just because I found them so fascinating.
It's hard to really judge the temporary wound cavities of the bullets since I'm trying to catch a single frame from a video that's only recorded at 120 frames/sec. I thought it was interesting that the cavity recorded from the 130gr SH out of the Grendel looked identical to the one I captured from the 275 SH out of the 375 Ruger.
The 85gr bullet penetrated 20" and curved slightly down and right. It retained roughly 30% of the nose petals.
The 99gr bullet penetrated roughly 18" with he first shot exiting the left sided of the second block after changing course and the second one stopped at 18.5" after veering up and left. The recovered bullet looked very similar to the recovered 85gr bullet. I switched to the 99gr HH in my Grendel a while back trying to step up the velocity from the 130gr SH I was shooting in there previously.
The 124gr bullets shot terribly, 3 MOA at 165 yards. The one that I got to hit the block expanded, then curved up and exited the second block at 20"
The 130gr SH is the bullet I had been shooting the Grendel prior to switching to the 99gr HH about a year ago. After my first shot in the gel with a 2410 fps impact, I was surprised by what I saw. The 130gr SH with a relatively mild 2410 fps impact velocity penetrated 48" of gel before exiting the third block. The penetration path was perfectly straight. I was so impressed by this that I moved back so that the impact velocity was roughly 2200 fps to see how that would impact performance. Again, the bullet penetrated 48" of gel before exiting the third block. I moved back one more time to my bench and fired the last shot with an impact velocity of 2150 fps, and go the same result. I made a separate video of these impacts just because I found them so fascinating.
It's hard to really judge the temporary wound cavities of the bullets since I'm trying to catch a single frame from a video that's only recorded at 120 frames/sec. I thought it was interesting that the cavity recorded from the 130gr SH out of the Grendel looked identical to the one I captured from the 275 SH out of the 375 Ruger.
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Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
Wow, that represents a LOT of work - especially of interest are the Shock Hammer results - fascinating stuff. Thank you for sharing your process and results, you are a credit to the community, sir!
I am very impressed with the results you are coming up with and thanks a million for your time etc that it takes…my job won't allow me the time to do the tests like that or even to have time to shoot like I need to so that helps me a lot to see the results…
BigNate
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate you taking the time to share this with us. Sometimes it's a real eye opener!
I don't know what you'd be interested in, but I have various bullets on hand, and I'd be willing to donate some.
I have: .224, .257, quite a few. 308, and I think two in .338 250gr Woodleigh Weld Core and 225gr Deep Curl.
Message me if any of it interests you. I'll check whatever caliber you are interested in and let you know what I have.
I don't know what you'd be interested in, but I have various bullets on hand, and I'd be willing to donate some.
I have: .224, .257, quite a few. 308, and I think two in .338 250gr Woodleigh Weld Core and 225gr Deep Curl.
Message me if any of it interests you. I'll check whatever caliber you are interested in and let you know what I have.
Montucky Roamer
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to the 30 cal 124 hammer test! Thanks for all the work! Very neat!
Thanks, guys. It takes about 3 hours per bullet tested after factoring in drive time, loading ammo, processing the gel, getting set up, then sorting through all the data. It's a labor of love! LOL Fortunately, I can process a lot of the data while I'm working one of my other jobs. Some of my clients do get a little worried if they hear gunshots while I'm on the phone with them though!
I've really liked the Shock Hammers ever since they came out. The performance of the 130s from the little 6.5 Grendel blew me away. A mid-weight for caliber bullet like that to go through that much gel was pretty crazy. The length of the wound cavity and the straight-line penetration were great to see too. I'm a "two holes" kind of guy for my hunting bullets and I always like a good exit. There's no question that the 130 of that little 6.5 Grendel will exit. My Grendel is a little CZ527 with an 18" barrel that I use as a truck gun, so it gets pulled out for anything from porcupines to elk if a target of opportunity steps out while I'm cruising the logging roads. I'd be comfortable shooting pretty much anything with that load inside of 200 yards, which is a long shot while driving in the timber.
I already have a handful of the 30 cal bullets tested, I'm just waiting until I can get a few more done this weekend before I post everything. Here's a teaser though:
That's a 200gr Swift A-Frame with a retained weight of 199.3 after a 2900+ fps impact. It was pretty spectacular to watch!
I'll apologize in advance to CA48 for the crappy work with the Berger bullets he sent me. I'm going to keep trying until I can get decent info on them! LOL
I'll call these attempted tests because most of the bullets barely hit the gel block! The 300 RUM I'm shooting is the pickiest rifle I've ever owned (for more than a week). The Berger bullets I tried could barely hold a 5" group at 100 yards, which made getting good hits on a 6" block pretty tough. None of the other bullets did much better, so I'll probably have to just go point-blank with those shots. Even the Hammer bullets were barely "minute of gel block". I typically get rid of any gun that shoots this poorly, but this rifle always shot sub .75" groups at 100 yards with the 200gr A-Frame. If I only had one bullet that shot well, at least it was a good one! There is one new bullet that not only shows promise from a performance standpoint but actually shoots really well in this stupid 300 RUM! More on that one later.
First round of tests included the 130 TTSX, 124 HH, 200gr Swift A-Frame, and the 175gr TGK .277 bullet. I'm going to retest the 124 Hammer later and try to catch one of the bullets.
The 130gr TTSX penetrated 20" before exiting the side of the block. This bullet shoots very poorly out of this gun, so I was surprised it even hit the block at 150 yards.
The 124gr Hammer Hunter penetrated through the first gel block, but I never found the bullet shank, only petal fragments.
The 200gr A-Frame is one of my favorites! This one penetrated 29.5" with a 3020fps impact velocity and retained 199.3gr. The video clip above is the same bullet at a slightly lower impact velocity.
Round 2 went slightly better, but not much. This round included the 199gr Hammer Hunter, 230gr Berger OTM, and the 153 Apex Afterburner prototype.The first shot with the 230gr OTM was good, but I forgot to hit record on the camera!
The 199gr Hammer Hunter impacting at 2820 fps penetrated 24" before stopping and penetrated in a relatively straight path, but did turn slightly left. The retained shank weighed 115.2gr. I caught one of the petals exiting the block in the still image and it's circled in red.
The first shot with the 230gr OTM was good, but I didn't have the camera on. That shot exited the left side of the second block. The second shot went low, bounced off the table, and exited the second block. I'll need to shoot this bullet at shorter range since it's barely shooting well enough to hit the block. This has nothing to do with the bullet, it's just a problem with my very picky rifle. I didn't even get a good still shot of the impact. This one is getting tested again.
Last up is the 153gr Apex Afterburner. This is a prototype bullet from Apex Outdoors, and I'm told the production version will perform slightly differently. I'll start a separate thread to go over this bullet a little more. The biggest thing that jumps out at me with this bullet is how well it shot in my INCREDIBLY picky 300 RUM. I opted to torture test the first couple of bullets to see how they do, so I shot them into the gel with an impact velocity of 3490 fps. The results were pretty awesome. I had to line up more blocks to catch the shank which finally stopped at 40.5" of penetration in a perfectly straight line.
Here's a link to the Apex Outdoors website.
www.apex-outdoors.com
I'll call these attempted tests because most of the bullets barely hit the gel block! The 300 RUM I'm shooting is the pickiest rifle I've ever owned (for more than a week). The Berger bullets I tried could barely hold a 5" group at 100 yards, which made getting good hits on a 6" block pretty tough. None of the other bullets did much better, so I'll probably have to just go point-blank with those shots. Even the Hammer bullets were barely "minute of gel block". I typically get rid of any gun that shoots this poorly, but this rifle always shot sub .75" groups at 100 yards with the 200gr A-Frame. If I only had one bullet that shot well, at least it was a good one! There is one new bullet that not only shows promise from a performance standpoint but actually shoots really well in this stupid 300 RUM! More on that one later.
First round of tests included the 130 TTSX, 124 HH, 200gr Swift A-Frame, and the 175gr TGK .277 bullet. I'm going to retest the 124 Hammer later and try to catch one of the bullets.
The 130gr TTSX penetrated 20" before exiting the side of the block. This bullet shoots very poorly out of this gun, so I was surprised it even hit the block at 150 yards.
The 124gr Hammer Hunter penetrated through the first gel block, but I never found the bullet shank, only petal fragments.
The 200gr A-Frame is one of my favorites! This one penetrated 29.5" with a 3020fps impact velocity and retained 199.3gr. The video clip above is the same bullet at a slightly lower impact velocity.
Round 2 went slightly better, but not much. This round included the 199gr Hammer Hunter, 230gr Berger OTM, and the 153 Apex Afterburner prototype.The first shot with the 230gr OTM was good, but I forgot to hit record on the camera!
The 199gr Hammer Hunter impacting at 2820 fps penetrated 24" before stopping and penetrated in a relatively straight path, but did turn slightly left. The retained shank weighed 115.2gr. I caught one of the petals exiting the block in the still image and it's circled in red.
The first shot with the 230gr OTM was good, but I didn't have the camera on. That shot exited the left side of the second block. The second shot went low, bounced off the table, and exited the second block. I'll need to shoot this bullet at shorter range since it's barely shooting well enough to hit the block. This has nothing to do with the bullet, it's just a problem with my very picky rifle. I didn't even get a good still shot of the impact. This one is getting tested again.
Last up is the 153gr Apex Afterburner. This is a prototype bullet from Apex Outdoors, and I'm told the production version will perform slightly differently. I'll start a separate thread to go over this bullet a little more. The biggest thing that jumps out at me with this bullet is how well it shot in my INCREDIBLY picky 300 RUM. I opted to torture test the first couple of bullets to see how they do, so I shot them into the gel with an impact velocity of 3490 fps. The results were pretty awesome. I had to line up more blocks to catch the shank which finally stopped at 40.5" of penetration in a perfectly straight line.
Here's a link to the Apex Outdoors website.
Lathe Turned Copper Lead Free Rifle Bullets | Apex Outdoors | United States
Patent pending lathe turned, lead-free, hunting bullets, designed without compromise. With scorching muzzle velocities, the highest ballistic coefficient in each class, high shock terminal performance, and shot to shot consistency, Apex Outdoors is redefining the pinnacle of the premium hunting...
www.apex-outdoors.com
