BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

[bigngreen]

I worked on building a test rig this winter also. Haven't used it but a couple times because of weather. I used a 50 gal poly barrel.

I put a piece of tractor tire inner tube over the 8 1/2 x 11 hole and hold it in place with 1x1's with silicone and screws, fill it with water and hang stuff from the top slot. I shot it twice with a 300WBY and 185 Bergers, it was to cold outside and the first shot split the tube a little but the second shot sealed back up. I may need to back it with neoprene to keep it from splitting but it seems like it will allow for multiple shots without resetting. The Bergers blew up! They lay in the bottom in little lead droplets and copper slivers. It lay in the bottom starting at 4in and ending after about 14 in.
My goal is to shoot actual hunting loads at full velocity at extended ranges, making it repeatable allows for shooting a string of shots then driving down and checking results.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I worked on building a test rig this winter also. Haven't used it but a couple times because of weather. I used a 50 gal poly barrel.

I put a piece of tractor tire inner tube over the 8 1/2 x 11 hole and hold it in place with 1x1's with silicone and screws, fill it with water and hang stuff from the top slot. I shot it twice with a 300WBY and 185 Bergers, it was to cold outside and the first shot split the tube a little but the second shot sealed back up. I may need to back it with neoprene to keep it from splitting but it seems like it will allow for multiple shots without resetting. The Bergers blew up! They lay in the bottom in little lead droplets and copper slivers. It lay in the bottom starting at 4in and ending after about 14 in.
My goal is to shoot actual hunting loads at full velocity at extended ranges, making it repeatable allows for shooting a string of shots then driving down and checking results.

I like this idea. I need to find one of these. I just hope it's long enough to stop a deep penetrating monometal bullet. I would cut a round hole

 

[Pdvdh]

The Bergers blew up! They lay in the bottom in little lead droplets and copper slivers. It lay in the bottom starting at 4in and ending after about 14 in.

Your experience with the Bergers in water is my experience with Bergers on game. When they open up they often completely unravel. They shrapnel explosively and if they do so in the boiler room - the animal is down and out faster than the shooter's ability to fully capture it if the range is within 450 yds - shy of replaying it on video. I shot a decent size boar black bear last spring at 425 yds with 210 VLDs and a 300 Win Mag diagnally through the boiler room at mid-height. Lights out so instantly it's scary. I never saw the animal so much as twitch. It's enough to make you wanna handle the remaining loaded cartridges as if you're carrying nitroglycerin.

 

[elkaholic]

I worked on building a test rig this winter also. Haven't used it but a couple times because of weather. I used a 50 gal poly barrel.

I put a piece of tractor tire inner tube over the 8 1/2 x 11 hole and hold it in place with 1x1's with silicone and screws, fill it with water and hang stuff from the top slot. I shot it twice with a 300WBY and 185 Bergers, it was to cold outside and the first shot split the tube a little but the second shot sealed back up. I may need to back it with neoprene to keep it from splitting but it seems like it will allow for multiple shots without resetting. The Bergers blew up! They lay in the bottom in little lead droplets and copper slivers. It lay in the bottom starting at 4in and ending after about 14 in.
My goal is to shoot actual hunting loads at full velocity at extended ranges, making it repeatable allows for shooting a string of shots then driving down and checking results.

I like it! I just bought a poly barrel yesterday to do some testing. I probably won't get that sophisticated yet but hope to at least get started and build something permanent later. I'm not surprised that the Bergers blew at that velocity. My plan is to fill the barrel with water (upright) and suspend a fine mesh at the bottom to extract the bullets. I'm not worried about the high velocity loads but am concerned about the 1800' ones going thru the bottom of my barrel. I will probably put a steel plate in the bottom for that reason. I have effectively used carpet to catch bullets in the past once the velocity has slowed and expansion has taken place. It works kind of like a bullet proof vest. We'll See I plan on putting a loose fitting lid over the barrel with a small window to shoot through so I don't catch a face full of water! I will probably put a gap between the lid and barrel to release pressure sideways. PRAY!.....Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Your experience with the Bergers in water is my experience with Bergers on game. When they open up they often completely unravel. They shrapnel explosively and if they do so in the boiler room - the animal is down and out faster than the shooter's ability to fully capture it if the range is within 450 yds - shy of replaying it on video. I shot a decent size boar black bear last spring at 425 yds with 210 VLDs and a 300 Win Mag diagnally through the boiler room at mid-height. Lights out so instantly it's scary. I never saw the animal so much as twitch. It's enough to make you wanna handle the remaining loaded cartridges as if you're carrying nitroglycerin.

I shot an antelope last year at 400 yds. with my 6.5 Sherman and a 140 Berger that did exactly what you described. Terminal velocity was somewhere between 2600-2700'. He dropped with his legs folded under him like he was kneeling and never even twitched!

 

[bigngreen]

I shot an elk this year with 140 gr .277 Berger and I found the peeled back copper base and lead droplets just as the ones shot into the water. The biggest pieces are the base cup and the lead disk that came out at the end, it looks like the copper jacket peels back and they go into pieces but not quite and explosion like a V-max. The elk was at 325 yrds and the water shots were at 100yrds. I will haul it out to 6 and 800 yrds to see what happens when they are coasting down. I also planned to set the crony up between the plate and barrel to record actual impact velocity, but that may be a little ambitious.
I can fit a steel plate inside to protect from shooting thought and I'm working on the one for the front for the longer range shots.

My idea is to be able to shoot a large group and then recover all of them so the sample group is larger and shot in as close to the same way as possible. I really want to see what the 210 Bergers do as we didn't have hardly any open up on deer under 300 yrds without hitting a fairly good bone. The 243 and 270 Bergers have been devastating and predictable. 30 cal have been hit and miss.

I like the carpet, I'll try to procure some. I should suspend in the water well but react also. I have tons of old phone books and news papers that I can try to layer different material to simulate the real thing. I'll save all my shoulder blades next year for testing!

 

[elkaholic]

Thanks for sharing what you are up to. It's nice to know there are more warped minds out there than mine. Seriously, I think it's prudent to do what we're doing and I hope it benefits some others. The very reason I started making bullets and doing all this testing is because of the bullet performance on an elk at 1025 yds. out of my 300 ultra. Yah it killed him but the results were less than dramatic. This was with probably the most used hunting bullet out there. It's a great bullet but we have to realize that bullet manufacturers have to cover a VERY large range of conditions and lets face it, the group for the most part, on this forum don't really fit in that window!.......Rich

 

[bigngreen]

I go to the Corbin site every once in a while, I could seriously kill the balance of a major credit card on that site. I really dig the looks of the bullets you squeezing out also. Looking forward to more of you work!!

 

[Pdvdh]

I've never used a Hornady A-Max before for anything, because I've had some problems with accuracy of some of Hornady's Interbonds and other models of bullets in the past. But I've read too often to dismiss, that the A-Maxs are an accurate bullet, and very frangible. Since I'm a two bullet user - one for long range shots and one for the close range ugly-bear-in-the-face chip-shots - I believe I will give them a whirl. With their plastic coned 'ballistic-tip-styled' tips, they should open even more reliably than Bergers VLD at the longer range, lower velocities - I THINK.

Anyhow, I've heard of others using them for long range low velocity impacts on game. I'm gonna try to round up a box of .284 162gr A-Max and try them in my 280 Improved. If I get an accurate load, I may try them this spring on LR black bear.

I define LR distance & impact velocity as starting around 4-500 yds on out, partially because I don't take the time to finesse an ultra accurate load for the controlled expansion bullet loads that I prepare for short range use. I've found that most any premium bullet is good-enough, accuracy wise, for shots from the muzzle out to around 400 yds. Since I spend a LOT more time developing my long range loads, I have a much more confidence with them and they fly with less wind drift starting around 400 yds on out.

 

[bigbuck]

I like it! I just bought a poly barrel yesterday to do some testing. I probably won't get that sophisticated yet but hope to at least get started and build something permanent later. I'm not surprised that the Bergers blew at that velocity. My plan is to fill the barrel with water (upright) and suspend a fine mesh at the bottom to extract the bullets. I'm not worried about the high velocity loads but am concerned about the 1800' ones going thru the bottom of my barrel. I will probably put a steel plate in the bottom for that reason. I have effectively used carpet to catch bullets in the past once the velocity has slowed and expansion has taken place. It works kind of like a bullet proof vest. We'll See I plan on putting a loose fitting lid over the barrel with a small window to shoot through so I don't catch a face full of water! I will probably put a gap between the lid and barrel to release pressure sideways. PRAY!.....Rich

Please Video the whole process

BigBuck

 

[elkaholic]

I've never used a Hornady A-Max before for anything, because I've had some problems with accuracy of some of Hornady's Interbonds and other models of bullets in the past. But I've read too often to dismiss, that the A-Maxs are an accurate bullet, and very frangible. Since I'm a two bullet user - one for long range shots and one for the close range ugly-bear-in-the-face chip-shots - I believe I will give them a whirl. With their plastic coned 'ballistic-tip-styled' tips, they should open even more reliably than Bergers VLD at the longer range, lower velocities - I THINK.

Anyhow, I've heard of others using them for long range low velocity impacts on game. I'm gonna try to round up a box of .284 162gr A-Max and try them in my 280 Improved. If I get an accurate load, I may try them this spring on LR black bear.

I define LR distance & impact velocity as starting around 4-500 yds on out, partially because I don't take the time to finesse an ultra accurate load for the controlled expansion bullet loads that I prepare for short range use. I've found that most any premium bullet is good-enough, accuracy wise, for shots from the muzzle out to around 400 yds. Since I spend a LOT more time developing my long range loads, I have a much more confidence with them and they fly with less wind drift starting around 400 yds on out.

I think you are absolutely correct in your assumption that the A-Max will expand at lower velocities! I was also interested in your comment "defining long range". I was going to post on that very subject because I think it can mean anything over 300 for some folks and over 800 for others? IMO 400 yards might even be a little close for the A-Max, at least on elk size. If I get a chance I'll try to test some (don't have any right now other than for my 6.5. I didn't get to far with my barrel/H20 test but have a couple of interesting results to post later this P.M.........Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

More good stuff from Rich>>>

...Tried a "Jed Clampett" water barrel test today with marginal results. I was afraid the depth wouldn't be enough in a 55 gal. drum and for the most part, it wasn't ! I placed a 1/4" steel plate in the bottom so I didn't drain the barrel the first shot. Good thing because the first shot was with the Sierra which went through everything and bounced off the steel! Next shot was with the Berger which came completely unglued in the H20. Next was the SXR which broke the mushroom off either going through the mat or just contacting the plate. The last bullet in the picture was my first attempt at a 190 partition (B.C. around .700). This was fired into my cardboard media at full throttle (2850 with my '06) If I can perfect this one, it could have a lot of potential for long range as well as hold up close in...

 

[Pdvdh]

Good stuff is right. Bingo on the Berger VLD. Poof! Like pixie dust.

Thanks for sharing the test results and photos.

 

[bigngreen]

It also looks like the Sierra hit bottom sideways, it must have tumbled. That Berger just turns to a mangler! Good stuff man!