Bullet selection. (ELDX/Accubond/Barnes/Hammer/)

[shooters]

Over the last 8-9 years, we've taken 14 Yukon Bull moose. All with 300 RUM's.
Closest being 80 yards and furthest 707 yards. All shoulder shots, straight on shots, and behind shoulder shots. A mixture of each. Never a bullet failure. ELDX performed the best.
Most of these moose were taken using 200g ELDX. Prob 8 of them. The remaining with the 200g Accubonds and 215 Bergers. All but 3 were 1 shot kills. The 3 that required more than 1 were the 215 Bergers. The Bergers worked fine. Just not the same results as the ELDX or Accubond. I would still use them without hesitation in the future. They just seemed to lack penetration. Especially on closer shots under 400 yards. But ultimately, they still died the same.

With that said, I'd really like to try a copper….something like a Cutting Edge, Hammer, CX, Barnes etc.
And I know. Why change what works. But the Coppers have always intrigued me.
With a few moose hunts coming up, I'd like to give one a try. I've always preferred shooting heavy bullets. My 300 PRC's I stick with 230 Bergers and heavy ELDX's.
But in the world of copper, usually you gotta back down quite a bit in weight. With that said, has anyone had any experience positive or negative with using a copper on moose or bear?
And I would not even know what grain to start with with my 300 PRC or my 300 ultra mag?

 

[dfanonymous]

Monos have been iffy on softer targets especially at closer range. If I was to go full time mono, which I won't, larger game like moose and elk would definitely be it.

So, monos are longer than lead core counterparts, because to get the same weight, they need to add more material. That affects stability if you're prepared for the longer shots.

Something to consider between rifle setup and dope.

 

[memtb]

But in the world of copper, usually you gotta back down quite a bit in weight

Not necessarily…..my wife and I both use the same weight with a Barnes of the same weight as popular cup & core for our cartridges! memtb

 

[nhenry]

Monos have been iffy on softer targets especially at closer range. If I was to go full time mono, which I won't, larger game like moose and elk would definitely be it.

So, monos are longer than lead core counterparts, because to get the same weight, they need to add more material. That affects stability if you're prepared for the longer shots.

Something to consider between rifle setup and dope.

I've gotta disagree with this. Copper has come a long ways since the TSX. I've never had a modern copper bullet fail to expand, especially at closer distance where the velocity is higher.


@ the OP
You'll back down on weight but you won't miss it one bit. Try Hammer Hunters (or tipped), they're pretty good. After that I like Barnes LRX.

 

[dfanonymous]

I've gotta disagree with this. Copper has come a long ways since the TSX. I've never had a modern copper bullet fail to expand, especially at closer distance where the velocity is higher.

You'll back down on weight but you won't miss it one bit. Try Hammer Hunters (or tipped), they're pretty good. After that I like Barnes LRX.

I will miss the weight, and what makes you think I haven't tried hammers?

 

[snox801]

Ya I can't get on the monos being iffy at short range.
I've shot a lot of them all and had good success. But I almost always load hammers now with the exception of some cutting edge. They are just significantly more effective at killing larger game. IMHO.

Only place they fall off a bit is trying to reach way out because the lack of bc. But for tho op distances the hammer or cutting edge would both be the most ideal bullet.

 

[snox801]

I will miss the weight, and what makes you think I haven't tried hammers?


I also wasn't referring to or referencing TSX…

Your experience is quite the opposite of mine. In fact that way I started trying monos. Shooting bullets fast up close causes issues with cup and core unless it's a partition.

 

[dfanonymous]

Your experience is quite the opposite of mine. In fact that way I started trying monos. Shooting bullets fast up close causes issues with cup and core unless it's a partition.

I can only comment to what I've done and seen. Just last year my bother in law made like a 40 yard shot on a mule deer with a .308. Zipped right through like a full metal. It gimped away into the thickets. Didn't find it for like 3 days. Good clean shot behind the shoulder and poked out the front of the adjacent shoulder.

There's been other times.


As far as cup and core, depends what we are talking about. Things like the ELD just kind of blow up in the animal. Same with the old AMAX. Accubonds have had some issues and inconsistency's upclose. Partitions kind of explode too if you get into the shoulder bone.

 

[shooters]

Maybe just a tad off topic we're getting. So just to go over my original question, if I were to try a cutting edge, hammer, Barnes, etc., what weight would I go with in the 300 PRC and 300 ultra? I'm also a little lost on bullet selection. As far as which Barnes …. The TTSX, the LRX, which hammer or cutting edge, Hornady CX, etc to try? Do I want to go down in weight to increase velocity to get them to open?
I would say the majority of the moose were shot under 400 yards. But I also need something that will work if need be up close at say 50 yards, and or out to 700 yards.

 

[dfanonymous]

But I also need something that will work if need be up close at say 50 yards, and or out to 700 yards.

if that's the case then we are not off topic op.

That's what we are hashing out. It's hard imo to monos to be absolute at all those ranges.

Even if you look at gel block testing, you'll notice that monos don't expand until a few inches further in than say a cup core bullet. The problem is with softer animals at closer range, the bullet after initial penetration will enter the plural space which does NOT represent ballistic gel. Gel is a medium, not a absolute. Meanwhile, at further distances, there's mass evidence that heavier ish for caliber monos seem to do well.

All the bullets you've named are capable to a degree. There's a big hammer following for a reason. It's where i would start.

 

[Quintus]

I am running the 160 Hammer Hunters in the 300Wby. Not the sexiest BC, but certainly will be well within the operating velocity out of the RUM past 700 yards. The 160 opens well even on softer targets and still penetrates very well. I can get 3400FPS from the bee without pushing too hard, but my accuracy/hunting load averages 3370. No moose on this yet, but the nephew and his family have killed 7 elk with this load from a tad under 100 to a tad over 500 yards and it has been flawless.

 

[fordy]

Gday shooters
Here's my spin on moving to a mono & also depends on a individual killing level of efficiency acceptance

First what's your preference a mushroom mono or a shedding as
These are 2 totally different beasts

The mushroom type you can get away with a heavier pill than a shedding on a reliability % of things going well/ correct as long as it's within the pill's good working capabilities ( don't listen to companies advertised min or maximum impact yes some ok some close & some no where near so do research & not enter the bingo raffle )

The mushroom monos are basically a FOC type pill that has good things going for it as long as it mushrooms flat & not a rounded one & creates a good mushroom not just open

The shedding now breaking these down into different parts/categories also is one I've found advantages of this pill vrs that & styles play a roll here also

Predominantly the hammers are better in the midweight category but choose wisely on styles as broadly speaking the hht doesn't like speed ( yes it will still kill but not to the level of other hammer styles ) but outliers exist in the hht eg the 154hht as that pill doesn't suffer the same traits as others in this line ( just watch it on minimum impact velocity as it doesn't adhere to the advertised minimum)
The hh line still gives plenty of bc in a rum for the ranges you talked of & still giving a good insurance policy on the minimum requirement of workings & up close high impacts is a good pill line

Apex is another type of shedding that if one was @ low impacts has proven to be very good but the real high impacts the good hammers still pip the ones I've used in apex but they have a new alloy today & I've not tested those in 30 cal only 6.5 so no real use to you other than the new alloy dosent suffer fracturing of the shank like the original alloy

the ceb are a lot like the hammers in relationships to different styles eg maximus , raptor laser etc & also in brass & copper on raptor's for which both behave differently & depending on application one can be favoured over the other but they just don't kill as well imo ( no pop in ceb & I thought it was due to being broached well I ate crow on that recently ) as the good hammers if one chooses wisely

The kinda new kid on the block is McGuire which I've not shot any of the 30 cal only 6.5 for which they are interesting on how they are producing the pop ( yes these pills have pop & couple other traits that's puzzling me ) as I haven't worked those tips out yet as they are not acting like a aluminium or polymer tip & so far immune from those issues those 2 other style tips have ( one breaks out the other plugs )

Hp have shown to have issues also of nose over & hammer more likely to occur on this although a very low % on occurrence it's one that with bandaids like a quicker twist than advertised or adding a fluid like additive ( eg beeswax or food grade oil or grease etc ) the nose over is reduced again

Just a bit of information I've found & help from some incredible minds on how & what occurs on the best preformance pills we have available today & one that on what's coming forward today from various companies is showing some pretty interesting results from yesterday

Yes the bar is moving & in a good direction with most imo

Choose wisely just as you would with a c&c

No time for pictures sorry

Cheers

 

[Koda_]

As far as which Barnes …. The TTSX, the LRX, which hammer or cutting edge, Hornady CX, etc to try? Do I want to go down in weight to increase velocity to get them to open?

For Hammers, pick up to the heaviest HHT that will work with your barrels twist rate and magazine fitment and done. It will likely be lighter than your usual bullet but the velocity will naturally be faster accordingly, but its about the proper twist rate, not velocity.

 

[memtb]

Maybe just a tad off topic we're getting. So just to go over my original question, if I were to try a cutting edge, hammer, Barnes, etc., what weight would I go with in the 300 PRC and 300 ultra? I'm also a little lost on bullet selection. As far as which Barnes …. The TTSX, the LRX, which hammer or cutting edge, Hornady CX, etc to try? Do I want to go down in weight to increase velocity to get them to open?
I would say the majority of the moose were shot under 400 yards. But I also need something that will work if need be up close at say 50 yards, and or out to 700 yards.

I'm a Barnes fans, for the two 300's you stated……I'd be trying the LRX 190 or 200. memtb