Bullet choice

Broz said:
I always suggest to people that what ever bullet they use, know how the bullet works and at what velocities it performs best. I hope this post helps you a little to know your bullet better. I have taken a Bull at 1130 yards, you better have a good expanding bullet to do it.
Jeff
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I hope my naive question doesn't urk any body. Can you give a guide line of impact velocity recommended for Berger (elk burger), and AMax? ie. <2400fps>1400fps. Thanks.
 
Ya it is crazy where we go deer hunting before the oil boom you would maybe see 9 or 10 other cars on the road for a whole day but now you see 15 oil trucks every 4-5 miles
 
Well i gtg to school and i was thinking last night they should teach us ballistics in math.:)
 
sportmuaythai said:
I hope my naive question doesn't urk any body. Can you give a guide line of impact velocity recommended for Berger (elk burger), and AMax? ie. <2400fps>1400fps. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Honest questions should not "Urk" anyone. I will be glad to tell you what I think about this. This opinion is drawn from seeing a dozen or more elk go down each year along with several deer, antelope and some others stuff.

I also use to use Barnes,and I had some plastic tips bust off the A-max years ago and no longer use them either. Although I feel they corrected this issue now as I never hear of issues these days. I switched to Bergers from the TSX's years ago and the Bergers do well for me. I shoot a 338 @ 2800 MV a 300 win @ 2995 MV. These velocities are at 4100 ft alt. I would have no issues shooting the bergers from either of my rifles at a big elk at 50 yards. But for that shot I would not shoot for a high shoulder. The crease right behind the shoulder is the key for a highly expandable bullet at close range. Also it is important to use one of the larger offerings for the caliber as some of the bullet will be fragmenting off and what is left will pass through. Like hitting them with a 338 and getting an exit from a 300, if you will.

What I mean by "know your bullet" is this. If you are shooting a high velocity rig with a MV above 3200 you may want to look at a solid. But know that as it slows for a long shot like down below 1900 fps it may not open at all. This is where the Berger shines as a long range bullet. At the same time if you are shooting a fragmenting bullet at close range from a rifle sending them out above 3000 fps I would not go for a heavy boned placement at 50 yards.

No two shots are ever the same, ever! The bullet speed, angle, placement,caliber, bullet weight, animal size, did it contact bone first, meat first all make a difference. There are instances where every or any bullets can fail. But was it the bullet that failed, or the shooter for not knowing his bullet and rig?

I hunt elk in the mountains. I want elk down as soon s possible. This is why I shoot Bergers. If the shot is close they go down in a few steps if they take any at all. If the shot is long I can depend on the bullet to expand and do damage. On the longer pokes they usually hunch up, stand there for a brief time wobble and fall over.

Hope this answers your question.

Jeff
 
barnesuser28 said:
Well i gtg to school and i was thinking last night they should teach us ballistics in math.:)
Click to expand...
You might as well just skip school, hit the boom and retire@ 25:D Not really, but I MIGHT END UP LIKE 1/2 MY FRIENDS THAT ARE WORKING OVER THERE, but live in MT
 
Broz said:
the Bergers do well for me. I shoot a 338 @ 2800 MV a 300 win @ 2995 MV. These velocities are at 4100 ft alt. I would have no issues shooting the bergers from either of my rifles at a big elk at 50 yards. The crease right behind the shoulder is the key for a highly expandable bullet at close range.
What I mean by "know your bullet" is this. down below 1900 fps it may not open at all. This is where the Berger shines as a long range bullet. At the same time if you are shooting a fragmenting bullet at close range from a rifle sending them out above 3000 fps I would not go for a heavy boned placement at 50 yards.

No two shots are ever the same, ever! The bullet speed, angle, placement,caliber, bullet weight, animal size, did it contact bone first, meat first all make a difference. There are instances where every or any bullets can fail. But was it the bullet that failed, or the shooter for not knowing his bullet and rig?

I hunt elk in the mountains. I want elk down as soon s possible. This is why I shoot Bergers. If the shot is close they go down in a few steps if they take any at all. If the shot is long I can depend on the bullet to expand and do damage. On the longer pokes they usually hunch up, stand there for a brief time wobble and fall over.

Hope this answers your question.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking time to reply to my question. So if the berger doesn't hit any major bone, and get into the vital such as lungs, 3,000fps impact is OK? How about minimum fps impact is preferred, assuming same no bones vital hit?
Also how does AMAX fare in similar situation?
BTW I'm a Nosler part. man, and have always tried to stalk closer. I don't reload above 3,100fps @muzzle. I'm here to learn.
 
sportmuaythai said:
Thanks for taking time to reply to my question. So if the berger doesn't hit any major bone, and get into the vital such as lungs, 3,000fps impact is OK? How about minimum fps impact is preferred, assuming same no bones vital hit?
Also how does AMAX fare in similar situation?
BTW I'm a Nosler part. man, and have always tried to stalk closer. I don't reload above 3,100fps @muzzle. I'm here to learn.
Click to expand...

Yes, The bull in my signature was killed with a 210 Berger from a 30-378 Wby @ 250 yards. Mv was 3050 fps. At that time, (2007) I was still shoulder shooting and the bullet penetrated the near shoulder bone, made mush of the insides and stopped just out side the far shoulder but never exited. The bull then seen me and wanted to bolt but could not. He fell pretty much in his last tracks. Looking at these result and some other bulls we have taken I no longer feel the shoulder is the best place for this bullet up close. But, I still feel even a large bull at 50 yards would be down with a shoulder shot as I am confident the bullet would make it into the vitals and wreck havoc.


I took a Bull in 2010 with the 210 Berger hunting VLD from my 300 win. MV 2995 fps. This bull as at 803 yards. Impact velocity was 2011 fps,energy was 1886 lbs. I under estimated the wind slightly and was about 12" farther back than the crease. The bull hunched up and turned 180 to go back on his tracks. I could see blood through the scope running down his side already from a exit that was over 2". It is my opinion that if I had hit this bull with a bullet that didn't expand verywell I would have been in trouble. But the bull went about 50 yards and was done as he was bleeding out at a rapid rate. I feel the Berger covered my butt on this one.

I only speak of first hand experiences. Either elk I have taken or ones I was right there to see the shot. We take about a dozen elk a year. This past season 9 were taken with Bergers from 325 to 816 yards. I didn't track a one of those and I am not looking to change anything. Since I have no first hand expreiences with the A-Max's I can not comment. But many hunters do talk well of them.

The Bergers are a true long range hunting bullet. But I have no probelm or concerns with shorter shots either. I feel they are as good as you can get when you need a high BC bullet for the long pokes. You need all the help you can get to buck the wind and retain velocity for energy. I have only seen one in an elk with a impact velocity below 1800fps, infact it was 1700 fps. It did expand and was a one shot DRT kill. Below this velocity I have no first hand info. But there are some boys on here that do. They killed a Bull with a 300gr Berger at 1480 yds with a 300 Berger OTM from a 338 EDGE. Complete pass through and the bull was a 1 shot DRT.

Here is that story: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/1480-yd-bull-throgh-spotters-eyes-85361/

Hope this is the info you are looking for. If you have any questions ask away. I will do my best to answer them.

Jeff
 
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