BOTW Divorces Berger & Marries Nosler

[MontanaRifleman]

I can't agree more, not sure where all the hatred comes from, but nosler AB 's have worked great for me in the past, and I'm sure the ablr we prove to be another great bullet, able to do what it was designed to do.

I wouldn't call it hatred, especially not for the bullets themselves. Let's call it great disappointment with the management for lack of honesty. How does that old saying go? ... as good as your word...

IMO, Nosler has basically copied the AMax idea. Nothing new here other than the ALR's have filled a couple holes the Amax's have left.

FWIW, Nosler E-Tips are my favorite short to mid range bullet on any game.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Honestly I'm torn. Because I do see the value. I have used them on a couple different rifles. Everything is a trade off. I just see myself as a 1000 yard or less shooter and with that, I don't feel I need 300 grain 338 bullets to do what I need to do. The 210 class bullets at 300WM velocities are pretty well balanced between wind, energy, and recoil. I have just totally revamped my 6.5x284 to duplicate my 300. Same stock, scope, rings, barrel contours etc..when I close my eyes and handle each one, I can't tell them apart. I'll use the 6.5 for practice/hunting deer sized game and the 300 for the big stuff. Seems like a good idea anyway.

 

[cohunter14]

As far as accuracy, I have only shot a few. So far they show good potential. This is as far as I'm going to divulge any results. There is already so much hatred for them here I just don't feel like getting burned at the stake.

Michael, I understand that you don't want people ragging on you one way or another based on your results, but I, along with many others I'm sure, would LOVE to hear what you are finding. I think the more information we get out there on these bullets, the more we can all learn. Based on what you have said so far, it is obvious that you don't think they hold up to the published BC's, but I would really love to hear what you are thinking they are at. It sounds like you have enough knowledge on this to make a pretty good educated guess at what the true BC is...so let's have it!!!

 

[Michael Eichele]

I don't mind offering a semi educated guess. I am of the opinion that they will be between .65 and .67 based on 300 mag to 300 ultra mag velocities. I think they will be very close to the 208 Amax. The only 2 things that might hold it back from matching tha Amax is it's nose profile and longer overall length. I think though that the aggressive boat tail may offset this to a degree. It's hard to say and maybe it's wishful thinking but I don't think .65+ is out of the question. If they were .63 or less I'd be shocked. Like Mark pointed out, the 208's BC was .664 based on Bryan's calculations at 3000'sec. I'd like to think the ALR would be at least .65 based on the same tests. .63 would make me happy. .65 would make me ecstatic. .67 would be a dream come true. Still a far cry from published but a HUGE increase from what we have had in a bonded 'hunting' bullet to date. The 208 is hands down one of my favorite 30 cal bullets. Its accurate, consistent, has a great BC and opens very well on game. even at lower velocities. However, they're downright scary when used on mature bull moose. By scary I mean it's ugly. Kills are anything but clean. They just dissapear on heavy bone. intead of fracturing a vertebrae I'd like to penetrate it. I suppose broadside lung shots are ok but it's hard to get those shots when they live in such thick tall brush. You're left with neck/high shoulder shots. It's not pretty. I don't know that the ALR will be that much better but I'm interested in trying. IF it holds up better and has a 208 class BC with accuracy acceptable for LR hunting, it'll definitely be a bullet I'd use for the bigger game I hunt.

The 1 big plus I have seen is they're weight to weight from bullet to bullet is very consistent. As consistent as the bergers and amaxs I have. The overall length is also pretty consistent but using a comparator, the base to ogive/bearing surface is very consistent.

 

[bigngreen]

There has been no hatred on this bullet at all, a lot of us are just wanting at least some data from bullets that have been shot prior to them being proclaimed the greatest bullet of all time. Real data and performance is always good!! The love fest prior to actual bullet launching is what gets under peoples skin.

 

[meat head]

there has been no hatred on this bullet at all, a lot of us are just wanting at least some data from bullets that have been shot prior to them being proclaimed the greatest bullet of all time. Real data and performance is always good!! The love fest prior to actual bullet launching is what gets under peoples skin.

dead on bigngreen i like nosler bullet's i have shot them for years until last year i let bigbuck talk me in to sierra match kings i did not like there performance this winter so i would like to see how they do myself.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Honestly I'm torn. Because I do see the value. I have used them on a couple different rifles. Everything is a trade off. I just see myself as a 1000 yard or less shooter and with that, I don't feel I need 300 grain 338 bullets to do what I need to do. The 210 class bullets at 300WM velocities are pretty well balanced between wind, energy, and recoil. I have just totally revamped my 6.5x284 to duplicate my 300. Same stock, scope, rings, barrel contours etc..when I close my eyes and handle each one, I can't tell them apart. I'll use the 6.5 for practice/hunting deer sized game and the 300 for the big stuff. Seems like a good idea anyway.

Yup, that is a great idea. Great looking rifles BTW and I love the straight 16X.

Randy

 

[cornstalker]

As far as accuracy, I have only shot a few. So far they show good potential. This is as far as I'm going to divulge any results. There is already so much hatred for them here I just don't feel like getting burned at the stake.

Michael, I understand that you don't want people ragging on you one way or another based on your results, but I, along with many others I'm sure, would LOVE to hear what you are finding. I think the more information we get out there on these bullets, the more we can all learn. Based on what you have said so far, it is obvious that you don't think they hold up to the published BC's, but I would really love to hear what you are thinking they are at. It sounds like you have enough knowledge on this to make a pretty good educated guess at what the true BC is...so let's have it!!!

That's where I am at. Well stated.

 

[cohunter14]

That's where I am at. Well stated.

Yeah, except I thought Michael had shot them already and was making his guess based on that. Oh well, sooner or later we will get some evidence! Until then, it is just speculation.

 

[cornstalker]

I guess I am confused. I thought Michael said he had shot a few too.

Whatever the case, I sure hope he doesn't with hold his test results on them.

 

[Swamplord]

Really want to try the 210 ALR in my wildcat 7.62 PRO and 300 RUM but tired of waiting so I got me a box of the Matrix 210 VLD's to try out....

How does the 210 ALR compare to the 210 Matrix VLD with a listed bc of .7525 ? or is that another inflated BC # ?

This from the Matrix website http://matrixballistics.com/.308-Caliber-rifle-bullets.html#matrixballisticsVLD

Caliber Inches: .308
Weight, grains: 210.0
Core Density, lb/ci-in: 0.4097
Core Weight, grains: 156.4
Jacket Density, lb/ci-in: 0.32
Jacket weight, lb/ci-in: 53.6
Ogive Radius, calibers: 13.0
Meplat Diameter, inches: 0.07
BC (static): 0.7525

.308 210GR VLD
$47/100 PCS

both are bonded except the 210 ALR is tipped

 

[bigngreen]

Really want to try the 210 ALR in my wildcat 7.62 PRO and 300 RUM but tired of waiting so I got me a box of the Matrix 210 VLD's to try out....

How does the 210 ALR compare to the 210 Matrix VLD with a listed bc of .7525 ? or is that another inflated BC # ?

This from the Matrix website .308 Caliber Bullets Custom Built for Accuracy | Matrix Ballistics

Caliber Inches: .308
Weight, grains: 210.0
Core Density, lb/ci-in: 0.4097
Core Weight, grains: 156.4
Jacket Density, lb/ci-in: 0.32
Jacket weight, lb/ci-in: 53.6
Ogive Radius, calibers: 13.0
Meplat Diameter, inches: 0.07
BC (static): 0.7525

.308 210GR VLD
$47/100 PCS

both are bonded except the 210 ALR is tipped

The 210 VLD is not bonded, the BC is slightly under the 210 Berger. Matrix is a small shop so the BC's are a calculated static BC, Bryan Litz has shot some of the Matrix and gotten a BC.

 

[Pdvdh]

In fact I plan to start shooting over a 1K chrono (Accustic Suprchrono). I'll measure both the muzzle velocity and the 1K velocity as well as drops to determine as accurate a G7 BC as possible for my use out of my rifle.

Le'me know if you like the Acoustic Chronograph, should you purchase one and put it through the ropes? I'm having difficulty finding any feedback on that unit on this Forum, but I haven't searched in the past two months. If they operate reliably and with good accuracy, they'll be the ticket for recording down range velocity. I'd still put a sheet of AR steel plating in front of the unit. My 1/2" AR 500 protective steel plate has three bullet splats on it now - all collected at 1000 yds- and this has saved me from having to replace 7 skyscreens on each of those three shots.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Le'me know if you like the Acoustic Chronograph, should you purchase one and put it through the ropes? I'm having difficulty finding any feedback on that unit on this Forum, but I haven't searched in the past two months. If they operate reliably and with good accuracy, they'll be the ticket for recording down range velocity. I'd still put a sheet of AR steel plating in front of the unit. My 1/2" AR 500 protective steel plate has three bullet splats on it now - all collected at 1000 yds- and this has saved me from having to replace 7 skyscreens on each of those three shots.

I just bought one from another member. The other day I was going to shoot it against my prochrono on an overcast day but the battery on the prochrono was burned out after I left it on from last use

So far I like it. Not sure about its accuracy but it seems to be in the ball park. My smith has an Oehler and is going to set them up back to back one of these days.