Bone to pick with new rifle owners - 100 yards out of the box

[C-130 Dude]

This is so true, I loaded 270 ammo for a farmer I know. He never touches the rifle until he get off the combine and whacks a big old buck. Calls me and tells me how good my ammo shoots. What can you say to that?

Ok? Your welcome?

 

[Raymond3]

Unprepared hunters are not the only ones that deserve attention in this thread. Sometimes guides give stupid instructions to their hunters that just ask for a miss. There are three instructions from guides that I have personally seen:
1. Instructions to shoot at an animal, maybe moving, that was clearly out of his clients range or capability.
2. Telling a client to take the shot by resting the rifle on a flexible item that was almost guaranteed to move during the shot. One of these was the wire of a barbed wire fence, that the guide then used to steady his binos. Sure miss.
3. At the last instant, sticking a bipod under a clients rifle that the client had never practiced with, or that was the wrong height for the hunter or shot angle.

A good guide will make time and have a dedicated place for his clients to actually test fire for accuracy when they arrive. With all that can happen during transport, this should be standard at all hunting camps.

 

[Rosebud]

Ok? Your welcome?

I'm very polite to him, he owns huge farms I get to hunt on. Here's one of them. It's a 356 acre field bordered by a big creek the deer swim to get to the corn,cotton, soybeans he grows.

 

[RichCoyle]

having spent much of my adult life working in various countries in africa as an engineer has afforded me the chance to hunt most all of the game the continent affords. from the mid 1970's when i arrived to the mid 1990's when i left i do not EVER recall shooting anything beyond 300 yards and virtually all my shots were under 200 yards and many well under 50 yards. in fact i doubt i could hit much of anything at 600-1000 yards and would not even try. frankly as an old school hunter and animal lover shooting at that distance unless you are an honest to god expert marksman is an irresponsible fools errand and to me takes away the best part of hunting..........the stalk where your skills and instincts rise to their best or not. the accurate shot is the cherry on the sundae for all your hard work to make it.

I think you forgot this is the "Long Range Hunting" forum.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I'm very polite to him, he owns huge farms I get to hunt on. Here's one of them. It's a 356 acre field bordered by a big creek the deer swim to get to the corn,cotton, soybeans he grows.

Very nice.

 

[del2les]

As in many areas of life, too many people think if they spend enough money and buy the latest, expensive gear, they will be transformed into instant experts or masters of the chosen field. Many of us have witnessed this so many times over the decades.

 

[Turkeytider]

In all reality, you can't fix stupid you never will. You never can people just don't understand shooting is an art you have to be able to keep control of all your emotions if you can't let alone not make sure that your rifle is sided in in the first place, you're never gonna hit what you're aiming at. I'm 59 years old, I've never shot an animal over 250 yd ever. I've taken a lot of animals in my lifetime. I don't understand why people think long-range shooting is so easy that you should be able to just go out and shoot. I spent my whole life shooting guns since I was 15 years old. It makes no sense why people just assume that they can go out. And shoot a gun that's come out of the box. I guess their brain is still left in the box.

A lot of people apparently don`t realize how difficult distance rifle shooting can be. They have no appreciation or apparently the knowledge of the myriad factors, equipment, environmental and shooter wise, that can adversely impact upon the travel of a small piece of metal from point A to point B.

 

[RichCoyle]

I'm sure his barrel was bent.

I had that happen! Normally when I bore sight a new rifle it hits within 3" - 4" of aiming point at 100 yards. My news carbon fiber / titanium rifle didn't hit the whoe 2' X 4' plywood backer. I aimed a foot and a half to the right and nothing. I aimed a foot and a half high and nothing. I aimed a foot and a half low and nothing. When I aimed a foot and a half to the left I hit the paper. I carefully looked through the bore again and what do I see? Not a nice round hole, but the slightest bit of oval. I took it to the gunsmith and had him disassemble it and sold all the parts; except the barrel. He kept that.

 

[hesse]

So here is what I have learned. With my skill level and equipment witch is good by the way ( hunting gear) I am a 400 to 500 yard shooter at animals that is where I feel I can make a clean killi prefer 300 and under. That every one is a the same and equal is what kids have been told is Bull crap . People that can long range shoot I tip my hats to reading wind is crazy hard breathing control hours sent on load development. Every 100 farther the shot is the amount of people who can make that shot drops every fast . Watching people at the range go from 100 then to 200 is nuts lucky if then are in the paper plate lol then go to 300 is laughable. I guess knowing your limits and staying with in them is the biggest problem I see .

 

[RichCoyle]

I have heard many claims of 1000 yard accuracy, but have seen very few, unless on a range, in controlled conditions. Out of the box? Really, really hard to believe. I would never go on any hunt without first checking my zero, but mine is nowhere near your 500, 600, or 1000 yards. I am a hunter, not a sniper, as your gamesniper 19 name seems to suggest. I would also suggest that if you take those long, long shots anywhere with any type of rough terrain, you probably lose animals that can't be found.

You have to memorize everything you can about where the game dropped. But then again, most guys hunt with a friend so that even improves things over my system.

 

[RichCoyle]

After a brief conversation I find out he had been guessing the distance at "about 200 yards". Well the closest target is 440 yards in that array and when I tell him that he's flabbergasted. Of course the yardage wasn't enough at that distance because of a 12 mph wind consistently coming in at half value. Just one hit with no fine tuning his dope he up and picks his stuff up, say's thanks and leaves. I'm betting he now thinks he has a 400 yd elk rifle. Too bad as I would have sat with him for the day getting him dialed. Guess he new all he needed to know.

I'm guilty. Many years ago, on an elk hunt I see a heard about 200 yards away. I get a rest and aim at the heart of a broadside cow and let 'er fly. The heard runs around but doesn't leave. Back in those days we had the double image thingies so I ranged one: 400 yards. I couldn't believe my inability to judge distance. But never fear, I had one of the early trajectory Tascos. I adjust it and took the top of the heart off with the next shot. Longest shot on game I ever made.

 

[CMP70306]

All of these posts re-enforce what Canada has done. Before you can acquire a firearm a firearm safety (knowledge) course is required! Then a hunter training course before you can buy a hunting licence and tags. No-one likes more restrictions but it does eliminate or at least reduce the possibility of idiocy! No -one knows anything unless they are taught!

My two cents worth!

Hunter safety course is required and has been for decades to get a hunting license in the US. When it comes to firearms the issue is that it can be abused to push an agenda and it can be incrementally increased to make it more and more difficult. What happens when the "firearms safety course" is only offered 9 to 5 Monday through Friday, requires a minimum of 5 days, cost $1000 and you have to take it every 3 years?

Very sad to hear. That kind of thing is easily avoided by reading the marine weather report, and not trying to go back into that inlet in the dark during a large swell. You're right, nature doesn't give a **** if you live or die.

They were killing the tuna and best I can tell they tried to get out and get back before the weather got real bad but it came earlier than expected. That being said I fish with a group on a 50+ ft sport fish and we wouldn't have gone out with how terrible the forecast was let alone going out in a 29ft boat.

 

[CMP70306]

You have to memorize everything you can about where the game dropped. But then again, most guys hunt with a friend so that even improves things over my system.

Some of the newer rangefinders integrate with your mapping apps to drop a waypoint when you range something. Would no doubt be helpful for that as well as stalking from behind a mountain or hill.

 

[blvette75]

Bone to pick and advice. Over the past ten years, we have seen a massive growth in out of the box 1000 yard capable rifles. Set up amazingly, built incredibly well and topped with amazing glass. Even engineered ammo. Then add ranging binos and ballistics calculators and you have a pretty amazing set up. True

If you buy one of these, awesome. SHOOT IT before you show up in camp. SO many times, I have been in camp trueing my D.O.P.E. and had some person show up with a rifle they have never shot and expecting to shoot their animal. They sit down, start shooting and wonder why they arent hitting the 500 yard target I set up.

Its because no one who cannot shoot 500 should try to shoot 500. Further more, shooting 600 is not a little harder than 500, its way harder. Just like shooting 1000 is not 2x as hard as shooting 500. NO its 10x harder. Especially in the field!! Especially with untested rifle, ammo, and hunter.

I have seen a few animals wounded and die terrible, long and painful deaths. Seen a few even not be recovered that were shot very badly. Please, show up ready to be an ethical hunter rather than showing up with bravado and ego. There is a reason military shooters have DOPE, so they hit the target correctly the first time! Then, true their dope...its takes time but the animal deserves it.

After reading many of the posts here, the one thing that really gets me is there is a lack of understanding of how much fun it is to get a new rifle and dial it in and get it to shoot the way you want it to shoot. I have been impatient with a rifle on occasion and bought something else in the same caliber only to dial it in later, when reading stuff on this forum and others allowed me to male a correction on a load or other adjustment on my scope mount etc. But the gratification of getting it to shoot, by far out weighs my initial frustration with a rifle.

When I was teaching my daughter to shoot and I started moving the target back she would always initially complain, but dad I might not hit the bullseye. Her joy of recognizing her Marksmanship always makes me smile. That what these gents are missing.

Had a buddy of mine an investment banker wanted to go hunting. He bought a new 300 weatherby, he had over a $2000.00 scope on it, and was bore sighted at the store. He flew in from Chicago, and we went to go sight in. I had my old Savage, with my Leupold long range. I had my rifle sighted in for many seasons before and just confirmed my zero with three shots at 200 yards. After shooting 1 full box of ammunition, he asks me for help. I set up a target at 50 yards bore sighted it got it on paper. Adjusted his scope got it zeroed confirming with a couple of shots at 100 yards. He shot the rest of that box and had a best group at about a 4 inch group, I asked him if he ever shot a rifle before he said no, told him he needed to practice, we could go again the next day. He was mad because Weatherby had a 1 MOA with three shots if he used their ammunition. I tried to explain that the rifle with scope was being broke in and we should check the torque on the setup. I let him know that he was a little recoil sensitive, and he was pulling his shots. I asked if I could shoot it then shot it shot about 1/2 three shot group. Then he got ****ed at me as he was going to show sporting goods shop his 4 inch group and the other 3 shot groups and give the rifle back, and I proved the rifle was accurate. I told him not to feel bad I had put away my rifles for about ten years and it took me a bit to get back my muscle memory and technique. I was going to bring my daughter she was 10 at the time, the next day but he declined to come, just rescheduled a flight back to Chicago. He still has the rifle locked in his TSA approved Pelican case to this day he never shot it again. Bottom line, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink and we never went hunting together.