BL-C (2) in .308 Win - What the heck???

[AvonShooter]

I must have missed it somewhere. My skim reading sucks. The OP has said he is checking the reload data between Barnes and Hogdon. One must also compare the same bullets. The Hogdon site shows load data for a Sierra bullet. he Barnes data is not for Sierra bullets. ie the disparity in max loads of BLC-2.

 

[Jester896]

The TTSX is a longer bullet. Yet they seat it deeper, further in the case. Result is higher pressure. I know not only form calculations but form experience.

doesn't the additional groves on the bearing surface relive some of that pressure to possibly match the pressure on the TSX bullet?

 

[C-130 Dude]

doesn't the additional groves on the bearing surface relive some of that pressure to possibly match the pressure on the TSX bullet?

It does, but to what extent I don't know.

 

[asd9055]

doesn't the additional groves on the bearing surface relive some of that pressure to possibly match the pressure on the TSX bullet?

I have to note, mine was different caliber. Same number of grooves

 

[AGGRO]

I too noticed this a while back. Asked the same question. Same type responses. Never a direct answer. If you want, call the manufacturer and ask them. However, for safety sake, start at 50 and work your way up. Watch the pressures. Stop filling when you get nice accurate hits. No sense in wasting powder. Using this light weight bullet will zip along very nicely even with a somewhat light load. Stay safe and have fun.

Had the same response about a load for 7.62 x 56R. They had the load bore as .308. I called and they said that's what the gun was slugged at. I was like, what? How many people have a Mosin that will slug that. Whatevers.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I use this, borrowed from my buddy's mom...
View attachment 574510

That'll work. Why not...

 

[C-130 Dude]

I am trying to work up a load for my 308 using Barnes 130 TSX. The manual from Barnes says a max charge of 56 grains. No way that will fit! I went to Hodgdon's website and they say 51 grains. That goes to the rim of the case and I have to tap the case to get it to settle enough to fit a bullet in. Something doesn't seem right here. Anyone else have this issue?

View attachment 574299

I know your wanting to use blc2. But I have to ask why? Do you HAVE to use this? I also have a pretty good stash of blc2 and wc846 that I keep mostly for shtf. But I do use a little from time to time. So I understand your wanting to use this. It's a good powder, easy to load, plentiful (sort of) and fairly inexpensive. But it does tend to be a bit temp sensitive. It'll work, but there are many other choices out there for all season temp stable powders. Color me curious.

 

[C-130 Dude]

Ok, but the Remington and Lapua cases I (we) mentioned are commercial .308 & not 7.62x51.

Just for academic purposes, I got curious and tried to cram all the blc2 I could into a brand new never fired lake city case. I bought 1500 (hs 14, 15, and 16) of them a few years ago from a contract cancelation. I used a 6 inch drop and vibrated the cases and could only squeeze 51.8 in it. Not satisfied, I tried 4 more with similar results. Can't cram too awful much using a ball/spherical powder anyway. Oh well, I tried.

 

[Cholla]

I have been traveling so just now got back to this. Thanks to all those that are giving good input.
Before I left, I found a few once fired winchester cases so for giggles I tried a few. 51 grains, which filled the Federal cases to the rim, filled the Win cases to the bottom of the neck. 56 grains filled the case to the rim and i was able to vibrate it down about 1/16". That is a huge difference! So, thanks to whomever suggested that.
I am traveling for the next two weeks so no more experimenting until I get back.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Be interested to see if you can seat a bullet now!

 

[AGGRO]

Be interested to see if you can seat a bullet now!

Bungy it off to a tree and let er rip with a string tied to the trigger.

 

[Beamonk]

I've had good luck with Ramshot Tac.

 

[tim_w]

Winchester brass almost universally has the largest internal volume of any popular cases at least found in the US. Not by a little either going from lowest to highest volume. It could easily cover over 3 gr of powder. Now add in possible variations in trim length shoulder bump coukd increase the spread.

Looking at my notes as I has hardly used fed brass but did use win 308 quite a bit back I the 90s. On the cases I had fireformed they has a 2.5-3 gr difference in vol. Usually h2o vol was 55gr -58gr spread. I believe bl-c2 has a tiny bit more density than water so it would be slightly more. You would have to check. I have no idea what today's current fed & win brass sd/es for vol.

I honestly thought this was a well understood dimension variance between case manf. as part of reloading. Winchester high vol especially in the popular 308 has been well known for what 50 yrs now?
I get some people may not know that or just forgot but some other comments on here about Barnes bullets do not make sense. Barnes bullets are not to be trusted! Seriously? So now it's not just an issue with load data it's all their bullets now too???

As for super compressed loads have you ever pulled a bullet or tried to match one of Horndays old super performance loaded ammo not the powder by that name. They use such a compressed load they used some sort of specialized equip to fit it. If you pulled the bullet the powder literally flowed out onto the table. It was crazy. It would be like taking a traditional compressed load in a Winchester case using a short flat base bullet similar to this case and try to fit it into say a NAMMO case which is the heaviest thickest lowest case vol I personal ever measure back in early 2k. They were like 9-10 gr heavier then lapua.

There is a reason every reloading manual, every site, every document on reloading states to start with the low powder charge and go up carefully. You never are suppose to start with a max load. It is also suppose to be matching components. It's not mix and match but (starting at min usually prevents issues). But use the specific brand type case, primer, coal. Anyone that loads shot shells understands about specific materials and you can not swap hulls wads etc. Starting low is a safety check for many things and of course it has to assume unfamiliarity with one or all the components being used.

While may not be the case here, the number of yrs of reloading is not nessecarily indicative of proper loading knowledge or even experience. I have seen old hunters that litterally had loads they scooped the powder into a the case knocked it level off the top, flush with the mouth, and seated a bullet. Been doing it their whole lives taught to them by their father. Same load never changed. They too had 20-30+ yrs reloading "experience". Doesn't mean jack. "It's the way we have always done it for years and never had an problem" are famous words spoken at many of some of the worst disasters.

I think you would be hard pressed to find official current reloading data from any of the major official sources where if you follow the written directions and use their recipe (case, powder, primer brand) starting at the min load and work up using their coal and a SAAMI spec chamber unless otherwise stated that will blow a case or have something bad happen. Just think of the liability. Now if you choose to ignore the signs and keep going........ I have never seen a reloading manual that states you should expect to be able to use the max listed load even with strictly following the recipe.

Just look how rare real sharpenal flying kaboom are from a over pressure powder charge load is in ratio to rounds fired even in reloads with some serious knuckleheads out there reloading. Much more in handguns because of easy to have double loads on progressive presses. Still very rare.

 

[C-130 Dude]

Winchester brass almost universally has the largest internal volume of any popular cases at least found in the US. Not by a little either going from lowest to highest volume. It could easily cover over 3 gr of powder. Now add in possible variations in trim length shoulder bump coukd increase the spread.

Looking at my notes as I has hardly used fed brass but did use win 308 quite a bit back I the 90s. On the cases I had fireformed they has a 2.5-3 gr difference in vol. Usually h2o vol was 55gr -58gr spread. I believe bl-c2 has a tiny bit more density than water so it would be slightly more. You would have to check. I have no idea what today's current fed & win brass sd/es for vol.

I honestly thought this was a well understood dimension variance between case manf. as part of reloading. Winchester high vol especially in the popular 308 has been well known for what 50 yrs now?
I get some people may not know that or just forgot but some other comments on here about Barnes bullets do not make sense. Barnes bullets are not to be trusted! Seriously? So now it's not just an issue with load data it's all their bullets now too???

As for super compressed loads have you ever pulled a bullet or tried to match one of Horndays old super performance loaded ammo not the powder by that name. They use such a compressed load they used some sort of specialized equip to fit it. If you pulled the bullet the powder literally flowed out onto the table. It was crazy. It would be like taking a traditional compressed load in a Winchester case using a short flat base bullet similar to this case and try to fit it into say a NAMMO case which is the heaviest thickest lowest case vol I personal ever measure back in early 2k. They were like 9-10 gr heavier then lapua.

There is a reason every reloading manual, every site, every document on reloading states to start with the low powder charge and go up carefully. You never are suppose to start with a max load. It is also suppose to be matching components. It's not mix and match but (starting at min usually prevents issues). But use the specific brand type case, primer, coal. Anyone that loads shot shells understands about specific materials and you can not swap hulls wads etc. Starting low is a safety check for many things and of course it has to assume unfamiliarity with one or all the components being used.

While may not be the case here, the number of yrs of reloading is not nessecarily indicative of proper loading knowledge or even experience. I have seen old hunters that litterally had loads they scooped the powder into a the case knocked it level off the top, flush with the mouth, and seated a bullet. Been doing it their whole lives taught to them by their father. Same load never changed. They too had 20-30+ yrs reloading "experience". Doesn't mean jack. "It's the way we have always done it for years and never had an problem" are famous words spoken at many of some of the worst disasters.

I think you would be hard pressed to find official current reloading data from any of the major official sources where if you follow the written directions and use their recipe (case, powder, primer brand) starting at the min load and work up using their coal and a SAAMI spec chamber unless otherwise stated that will blow a case or have something bad happen. Just think of the liability. Now if you choose to ignore the signs and keep going........ I have never seen a reloading manual that states you should expect to be able to use the max listed load even with strictly following the recipe.

Just look how rare real sharpenal flying kaboom are from a over pressure powder charge load is in ratio to rounds fired even in reloads with some serious knuckleheads out there reloading. Much more in handguns because of easy to have double loads on progressive presses. Still very rare.

I always thought that, "start low and load up to max pressure or nice accurate shots, whichever comes first," was the golden rule??? Besides, most accurate loads come in at something less than max pressure. Of course keeping speed up is a must for proper expansion, but using 130gr bullets shouldn't be a problem with a .308.