Bigger is better theory or truth?

[David Lindler]

Unless you break the shoulders and spine, any deer can run no w matter u shoot them with. First pic.130 grain 270 sst on a 200 lb muley at 235 yards. Boom floop. Destroyed shoulder
2nd picture, mulely shot at 90 yards. 338 lapua 300 grain Berger double lung hit.. Ran 45 yards before hitting a fence. Exit wound size of baseball. All vitals turned to jello.
3rd pic, 180 Berger 7mm mag VLD deer still ran 10 yards. Deer should have never been able to take a step, but did.
The main thing is bullet placement and large exit wounds for blood trails if they run.

 

[MagTen]

I have been very fortunate. Great percentage of my shot game have been either been DRT or just a few yards away. I have built guns recently for longer range shots. I would have to say in my experience the 35 Remington or like cartridges are the best short range rounds ever made. Shots that totally explode the heart are no guarantee of DRT. How much your animal is pumped up has a lot to do with how they run when dead.

 

[Johnslam]

Terminal ballistics is like black magic.
Sometimes what traditionally works doesn't and sometimes it does.

I've seen 243s drop em drt. Others have run 45 plus yards. Same bullet.

My 308, has also dropped em drt and some have run. None over 45 yards though.

Just last weekend I witnessed two separate does take a 35 Whelen to the boiler room at around 200. Both ran 50 plus.

 

[okie man]

it's funny when you hear, I shot a small doe with a sumpin' Big magnum shooting a big ole bullet and it ran after the shot! That's because there wasn't enough tissue to upset the bullet and transfer the energy to the central nervous system. Tough well constructed bullets are fine for heavy bone and tissue but don't always preform well on smaller framed game

 

[BigSky112]

If the shooter is as good as they think they are or claim to be, 1 shot behind the ear will be DRT with any legal hunting caliber. Unlike high shoulder shots, ZERO meat lose !

 

[SergeantD]

Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?

The 7mm-08 is a great deer caliber. IMO I believe even better than the 6mm everyone has fallen head over heals with. I have shot deer with a 7mm RM with Speer Grand Slams and have lost one. The only thing I could think of is that the bullet didn't have enough time to expand or I was too close when I shot the deer. I agree with what your saying. I believe it comes down to the bullet type being used.

 

[Peregrine82]

I find it is shot placement first of all. Bullet selection also has some merit as well. I have notice cartridges with higher velocities tend to turn the switch quicker in most cases.

 

[tooth doc]

I dont believe any shot other than spine or brain will always drop an animal immediately. Haveing said that, a shot through both shoulder , they dont go very far. Any mortal shot through lungs and or heart seems to come with animal running a bit.

 

[GLTaylor]

I agree with several. The only way to ensure an animal drops in his shadow is disrupt his nervous system. Like an earlier respondent I too lived in lowcountry South Carolina for many years. No limit and 4 1/2 month deer season. Quit keeping records at 200 bucks. Many does. I've also killed deer with everything from 22 to 7RUM. Head, neck or high spine = drt. Lung, heart , shoulder many if not most run some distance. I don't fool with neck meat so destruction doesn't matter to me.

 

[TangoOscarMike]

In Georgia we can kill I think 12 deer per season. I hit them wherever the best shot presents itself. I am not going to worry about ruining a shoulder or the neck meat if that is the best available shot. I think of it more as gaining hams and loins than losing a shoulder LOL. For most of my deer hunting with a rifle I have been shooting a 30-06 with 180 grain core-lokts. They always punch on through and I never have trouble following the buckets. When I lived up north it was shotgun only. There were many a deer that fell in front of that 870 with 00B. I never had a problem with it. Now the deer that I hit with buckshot pretty much dropped like a building imploding.

 

[CNY Yote Hunter]

In Georgia we can kill I think 12 deer per season. I hit them wherever the best shot presents itself. I am not going to worry about ruining a shoulder or the neck meat if that is the best available shot. I think of it more as gaining hams and loins than losing a shoulder LOL. For most of my deer hunting with a rifle I have been shooting a 30-06 with 180 grain core-lokts. They always punch on through and I never have trouble following the buckets. When I lived up north it was shotgun only. There were many a deer that fell in front of that 870 with 00B. I never had a problem with it. Now the deer that I hit with buckshot pretty much dropped like a building imploding.

Wish we could here in NY but our state is terrible. I get 1 buck tag a season and it's a lottery system for doe tags, you can get 2 if your lucky and in the right zone but I'm lucky to get 1 doe tag a season. Really sucks only being able to harvest 2 a year and any meat lost makes it even worse cause we go through it fast! It's illegal to use 00b in NY as well lol. 12 a year must be a riot!

 

[Bob Wright]

So many variables today, it's mind boggling. I must say in my younger years the 30-06 dropped many animals from elk to deer on a 165 grain core lokt or a Hornady spitzer point flat base. Longest shot then was 365 yards. As I reach out further today with high accuracy, all that experience is less certain. I set up a rifle for a youth doe hunt with copper monos a "must" by game and fish request. It magnificently dropped a small deer with a 7mm 145 Barnes at 80-90 yards but cost 2 front shoulders in the process. We were taught 40 years ago to shoot behind the shoulder for less meat loss. Now that the blood shot meat is showing up, in the shoulders, that doesnt seem to be the perfect answer. Right now, we aim for vitals and if a blood track is the requirement or DRT, then that is our issue to deal with. No easy answer for an open country highly variable hunt in the southwest. Long or short, you work with the ammo that can deliver immediate lethality if the range is right. But the stars rarely line up that way. My vote is accuracy first and generally good expansion at a distance I try to understand from the manufacturers. Then I hope my shot does what I believe it will do. The variables are endless and the debate rages on.

 

[Mram10us]

If the shooter is as good as they think they are or claim to be, 1 shot behind the ear will be DRT with any legal hunting caliber. Unlike high shoulder shots, ZERO meat lose !

Seen two deer in the wild with broken jaws from the guy who tried to be a super sniper. Vitals are the safer and more humane route. Don't have to hit the high shoulder. This is coming from a western high country guy though. My partner was from Wisconsin and took short shots his whole life. Different animal

 

[David Lindler]

I have been very fortunate. Great percentage of my shot game have been either been DRT or just a few yards away. I have built guns recently for longer range shots. I would have to say in my experience the 35 Remington or like cartridges are the best short range rounds ever made. Shots that totally explode the heart are no guarantee of DRT. How much your animal is pumped up has a lot to do with how they run when dead.

Hard to beat the old 35. Have you tried the 200 grain Hornady flex tip in the lever reveloution load. Shoots flatter. Hits hard. Winchester just came out with 350 legend. Its basically a 35 Remington ballistics in a AR-15 Platform. All reviews so great results.