Beware!!! SRS knock-offs floating around

[the gman]

Words of wisdom. Let the businesses work this out. JA Outdoors expressly relayed they have made the change in suppliers. SRS took a shot across the bow and played the revenge card. This has done nothing but caused division in this great forum.

Respectfully, what division? SRS innovated the SRS rail concept, and sold to a few, selected dealers he thought were decent, ethical people. IMHO, J&A figured out how to have that innovative product made elsewhere for less money and decided, unethically, to do so and screw SRS.

I don't care what "the rest of the story" is; there is a man's word in this world and if you can't keep it, you're dead to me. I've literally done million dollar deals on a handshake, with that company committing to buying over $4 million worth of new machinery to gear up to make parts for the company I worked for. They bought the machines, delivered the goods and they got paid on nothing more than my word they would.

If you want to buy from people who are unethical enough to steal someone else's product (and it's ABSOLUTELY crystal clear that the J&A product is a direct rip off, regardless of slight machining differences) then that's YOUR decision but it speaks volumes as to the character of the business you're dealing with. I was a cop for a long time and without people who are slimy enough to buy stolen goods, there wouldn't be thieves. I guess everyone can figure out if they're slimy enough to do business with a thief for a few bucks less...

 

[Muddyboots]

I've yet to see evidence that JA sold branded SRS products. As mentioned already. Hearsay and revenge is all I see so far. If I were so adamant about the issue, I would have the sand to identify the offender for one, and two provide the evidence. Past that it's the OP just hand wringing. I also think the thread should be closed. Bad form.

Geez, always hate to agree with @Gingerman but this is spot on.

 

[the gman]

I've yet to see evidence that JA sold branded SRS products. As mentioned already. Hearsay and revenge is all I see so far. If I were so adamant about the issue, I would have the sand to identify the offender for one, and two provide the evidence. Past that it's the OP just hand wringing.

And god forbid a sponsor be bashed on this forum…

JA admitted they did. They are listed on SRS's page as a supplier. Not enough coffee this morning?

What's bad form? Educating the people who spend money that a company they might do business with is unethical enough to rip off another person's product? If they'll screw over another's work product and innovation, they'll screw you or me in a heartbeat. A thief can never be trusted. Period.

 

[Ucsdryder]

JA admitted they did. They are listed on SRS's page as a supplier. Not enough coffee this morning?

Maybe I missed that part. Can you quote where he said he had someone else make SRS products and sold them as branded SRS products? If he did, that would make all this a lot less murky.

 

[DoneNOut]

JA admitted they did. They are listed on SRS's page as a supplier. Not enough coffee this morning?

What's bad form? Educating the people who spend money that a company they might do business with is unethical enough to rip off another person's product? If they'll screw over another's work product and innovation, they'll screw you or me in a heartbeat. A thief can never be trusted. Period.

I've had plenty of coffee. You haven't had enough of whatever it is to critically think and be rational.

 

[Willys]

Mfg B approaches you with a product that works as well as mfg A's at lower cost. Mfg A has no legal ownership of the product design. Do you start selling it or let your competitors offer it while your sales drop? What you don't do is sell as generic knockoff leveraging off Mfg A's marketing and goodwill.

 

[Huntz]

Its called free market competition . Something you have to realize if you want to play with the big boys . Budweiser realizes that now.

 

[Ckleeves]

I don't believe JA was ever selling anything that was marked "SRS". I think it was more a case of listing SRS in the drop down menu to where people could have easily assumed they were getting SRS rails.

It does appear to be a pretty blatant knockoff, if it was just a pic rail that's one thing, everybody and their dog has made a pic rail at some time. The pic/arca combo was an original design as far as I know and it looks like they literally dropped one off at a CNC shop and said "need 1000 of these but cheaper".

Same with the muzzle brakes, there are a thousand different designs out there and everyone is a little different, nobody is stopping anybody from coming up with a original design even if it shares some similarities with others. Without having both in hand side by side it's hard to say for sure but once again it looks like a direct copy.

I do think it's funny that some guys would be up in arms if these were being knocked off in China but it's somehow somewhat ok if a US company does the exact same thing.

 

[the gman]

I've had plenty of coffee. You haven't had enough of whatever it is to critically think and be rational.

LOL. I was a detective for a long time. JA was a dealer for SRS of a very specific, unique and clearly identifiable product for a number of years. JA announce they are parting ways with SRS on their Instagram page which is in this thread. Miraculously, JA now have a functionally identical copy of that unique and specific product that SRS innovated and sold through JA. The only difference between the two is some insignificant machining in the lightening cuts. They are essentially the SAME product. Rational enough? JA clearly ripped off SRS by having another (likely in China) company make the SRS product. Matters not if JA market it as their own rather than claiming it as SRS product. (which I or SRS never said they did)

It tells me and anyone with any character about the kind of people running JA. They are trading on the reputation of SRS because their product functionally replicates the trade dress of SRS product. I'm still in the firearms industry and obtaining patents are extremely difficult, costly and very hard to defend. SRS shouldn't have to patent their unique products to prevent unethical people like JA screwing them over. You can buy from whomsoever you choose; I'm pretty picky about not doing business with crooks but you do you.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Respectfully, what division? SRS innovated the SRS rail concept, and sold to a few, selected dealers he thought were decent, ethical people. IMHO, J&A figured out how to have that innovative product made elsewhere for less money and decided, unethically, to do so and screw SRS.

I don't care what "the rest of the story" is; there is a man's word in this world and if you can't keep it, you're dead to me. I've literally done million dollar deals on a handshake, with that company committing to buying over $4 million worth of new machinery to gear up to make parts for the company I worked for. They bought the machines, delivered the goods and they got paid on nothing more than my word they would.

If you want to buy from people who are unethical enough to steal someone else's product (and it's ABSOLUTELY crystal clear that the J&A product is a direct rip off, regardless of slight machining differences) then that's YOUR decision but it speaks volumes as to the character of the business you're dealing with. I was a cop for a long time and without people who are slimy enough to buy stolen goods, there wouldn't be thieves. I guess everyone can figure out if they're slimy enough to do business with a thief for a few bucks less...

There's the division. You just insinuated anyone buying one is a "Slimy". So Winchester designed the 300 Winchester Magnum. If one buys a box of Remington Core-Lokts in 300 Winchester Magnum are they slimy? If someone buys a Caldwell Bipod which is almost identical to the original Harris Bipod are they "Slimy". NOT!

 

[the gman]

FYI, I have ZERO connection with SRS other than as a very satisfied customer.

 

[the gman]

There's the division. You just insinuated anyone buying one is a "Slimy". So Winchester designed the 300 Winchester Magnum. If one buys a box of Remington Core-Lokts in 300 Winchester Magnum are they slimy? If someone buys a Caldwell Bipod which is almost identical to the original Harris Bipod are they "Slimy". NOT!

Yes, you are IF you are aware of the fact that Caldwell stole the Harris design and had it made in China for cheap. Caldwell traded on the Harris design and trade dress to make money off of American innovation, quality and reputation. I personally refuse to buy any Caldwell stuff for that reason. And despite his reputation, Larry Potterfield, who owned Caldwell at that time, is no-one to be trusted because he hurt an American family owned business over money.

The .300WM analogy is ridiculous; its a common caliber, is open source, and the product design specs are in SAAMI for all to see. When MagPul came up with the M-Lok design, they wanted maximum adoption in the industry so they published the specs for anyone to download, all they asked for was credit when someone used it.

Slimy is AAC ripping off the .300 Whisper with the .300 Blackout without a single acknowledgement of JD Jones' work. JDJ is an idiot who should have open sourced that round decades before but was short sighted. Almost like Bill Alexander of Alexander Arms with the 6.5 Grendel. Bill is a friend of mine and I told him over a decade ago he needed to open source that round so he could make more money, rather than try to maintain a tight hold on it via licensing.

Sorry if the truth hurts but if you're buying a product you KNOW was stolen from someone else because its cheaper than getting it from the source, yeah, you're slimy. Doesn't matter if you buy it in the bar from a shady dude or if you buy the ripped off item from JA instead of the original from SRS. Says more about your character than words can.

 

[DoneNOut]

FYI, I have ZERO connection with SRS other than as a very satisfied customer.

You have an extremely biased and subjective viewpoint on this. You should be familiar with those terms, as well as, "We shall let the record reflect" in regards to what has been posted thus far about the matter. JA admission of guilt? Your words.

I've not bought anything from either company, although I am very familiar with them. I've no dog in the fight. Just analyzing what's been presented.

 

[Willys]

This: Announcing Ti-Tanic SuperPro V muzzle brake !

Not: Ti 5 port brake at less than what have been selling them for.