Better 6mm (not 243W) for hunting? Which one?

6mm cm does NOT have more oomph than 243! The 243 has a little more oomph if you handload. Otherwise they are ballistically the same. If you want a step up there are other 6mm/243 options. Just dont belueve that the crreds are ballistically superior. Their positive is relatively inexpensive, match grade ammo for long range shooters, so that they dont need to craft handloaded match ammo.
ToothDoc is correct. The 243 win has more power and case capacity than the Creed. The 6 Remington has more than the 243, and with a longer neck to cool and re direct powder burn, it also has a longer barrel life than both the other cartridges. Brass is readily available and it will handle any bullet any of the other 6mms will with the right twist. Its not anywhere near being the newest or hottest thing on the block, but it will fill the bill for what you said you want.
 
Nobody said a 6mm going 3000 won't kill. Or that 3400 is needed to kill. But that 400 fps just might be the difference with wind drift of a kill or wounding. Remember this is LRH. At longer distances speed and bc are your best friend.
Shep

Yes, LRH forum! Not every shot is long range though. ;)

I've taken dogs at ~20 yards so, sometimes a ~50 yard shot could be considered long! For a dedicated long range rifle (real long range meaning >400 yards), I would do a real high velocity hammer!

Realistically though, most shooting will be inside ~200 yards so, trajectory and windage concerns are minor along with potential velocity loss. Larger feral hogs will always benefit from a bigger cartridge but, I use a 6.8SPC AR-15 for intended feral hog hunting. For nuisance coyotes, I want more than 5.56 in a handy package that isn't hard on my shoulder or wallet! With better barrel life, I can recreationally shoot a lot a more and skill build with my 'hunting' rifle assuming I'm not shooting something really expensive to reload because of brass costs (case loss, obscurity, difficult fireforming, etc.).

Post-Shoulder surgery, the thought of 'sharp' recoil from a hyper-6mm is a bit scary as I don't want develop a flinch or general avoidance of the rifle in question.
 
ToothDoc is correct. The 243 win has more power and case capacity than the Creed. The 6 Remington has more than the 243, and with a longer neck to cool and re direct powder burn, it also has a longer barrel life than both the other cartridges. Brass is readily available and it will handle any bullet any of the other 6mms will with the right twist. Its not anywhere near being the newest or hottest thing on the block, but it will fill the bill for what you said you want.

Yes! I'm thinking a 6mm Remington is probably one of the better options at the moment. It is not as 'sexy' as one of the new whizz-bangs but, I always wondered why Remington didn't promote it harder and dropped it from its rifle lineup. It's not that the 243 Winchester is bad, just that the 6mm Remington looks better though Winchester won the marketing war.
 
Factory 6mms from the day had the wrong twist so was relegated to a varmint round. The 243 had the 9 twist so it shot bullets suitable for big game. If the 6mm had the 9 twist from the start the tables would have been turned most likely. The 6mmai is one heck of a hunting round. That's one I never played with. One I'm playing with now is the 6slrai. Like a 243ai with long neck.
Shep
 
Yes! I'm thinking a 6mm Remington is probably one of the better options at the moment. It is not as 'sexy' as one of the new whizz-bangs but, I always wondered why Remington didn't promote it harder and dropped it from its rifle lineup. It's not that the 243 Winchester is bad, just that the 6mm Remington looks better though Winchester won the marketing war.

Because the 6mm requires a long action to get the most out of it, and Remington used the wrong twist in their barrels from the get go and it never caught on because of that.
 
I'm building this one at the moment...
2016-11-04 18.24.49.jpg
 
Yes, that's part of the problem with the proliferation of 6mm options. Most new ones are pushing higher velocities and powder capacities. Then you have all the benchrest options to throw in the mix as well.

I guess the real question is what can I kill with a 6mm at 3300FPS~3500FPS that I can't at ~3000FPS? At what cost (weight, recoil, barrel life, etc.)?

Then there is the issue of the once a lifetime Mountain Goat hunt that may benefit from something like a 6-284Win. If a 243Win will take Pronghorn, why wouldn't something a bit slower like the 6XC? I could always take my heavy 25-06 if the shot requires more distance capability. Coyotes and Deer will never notice the difference IMHO with any reasonable shot placement at realistic distances where I would hunt (East Texas and Central Oklahoma) with a lighter (poundage) rifle shooting a softer shooting cartridge. Heck, a 6mm Benchrest variant would probably do well inside 200 yards which is worst case for most of my shots.

I understand and don't disagree with any of it. It's a margins and hit factor game. If I am shooting PRS and banging steel at 1000 yards, 2900 fps is not losing a lot to 3300. If I am now going to make a 1 shot attempt on a game animal over a variation of terrain and have 400 fps more umph to reduce bad wind call errors I am gaining about 1 moa less drift in 10 mph wind. So at 700 I've shrunk my wez 7". My elevation is now almost 4 moa different at 700. 28" less drop also means that I am not playing with a LRF if that goat is moving around a little.

The cost of it all is the balancing act. A longer barrel life generally means we'll shoot the rifle more. That is important to me as we shoot and know that cartridge well. But what about the 338 guys that practice with a 6.5 creed. Does that mean they can't shoot that 338 well? No it does not. So if you have a hunter that is bit of a barrel burner but reduces your margin of error and has more capability, its tough to argue against it. When I go wolf hunting I take my 6.5-284 or now my 6.5 PRC vs a my creed or 243 or 204 etc normally. It kicks a little more, but man, that additional 300 plus over the creed is a security blanket. Will it make the wolf deader, nope. Would I use any of those rifles, yes I would. I just happen to like the 135 at 3100 out of my 22" prc vs 2720 out of my creed a lot more from a mental perspective. One of creeds was built specifically for hunting and use in a back pack hunt or saddle scabbard situation. It weighs 8.5 lbs with the can vs my chassis prc at 10. I just always seem to reach for that PRC in the end.
 
simple if you hand load a 6mm Remington is the very best. it has a long neck and is light years ahead of the 6mm creeless, which is nothing but a 250/3000 case. I do not believe you can build any 6mm to out shoot the 6 remington. it is the max. anything more is just a barrel burner that will be less accurate because of high pressure -which is not a good thing for accuracy.. If remington had built their first 244 with a 1-10 twist there would be few 243's. I load my 85 gr bullets with 414 or 760 same powder to 3050 which is about 3 grains under max. in a 20 " bbl. and I remove a lot of Gophers every year.
 
Yes! I'm thinking a 6mm Remington is probably one of the better options at the moment. It is not as 'sexy' as one of the new whizz-bangs but, I always wondered why Remington didn't promote it harder and dropped it from its rifle lineup. It's not that the 243 Winchester is bad, just that the 6mm Remington looks better though Winchester won the marketing war.
Remington made a couple of mistakes when they brought it out. First, they only made ammunition in the 80 to 90 grain range, second they made their rifles in a 1 in 12 twist and marketed the cartridge as a varmint round. They originally called it the 244 Remington. It got a reputation for not being able to stabilize the heavier bullets adequately as a result. They also loaded the ammunition to match 243 Win ballistics, which was a mistake, too. They changed the name of the cartridge to 6mm Rem. and upped the barrel twist to stabilize the heavier bullets (100 to 105) of the time, but the damage was already done, and the 6mm Rem also had to use a long action, which was a disadvantage at the time. They made some of the same mistakes with the 7mm Express/280 Remington cartridge. Both are superior cartridges within their respective niches but they were poorly marketed. The 6mm Remington is significantly superior to the .243 or the Creedmoor when you hand load it, and if you have one built with a fast twist barrel, that just adds to its superiority by enabling it to shoot the heavy match bullets.
 
The Creed is a better design than the 6mmrem. Sure the 6mm rem has more powder space but here is why the Creed is better.
Creed is shorter over all. Long bullets still fit in short action in the neck where they belong. The Creed is absolutely not a 250-3000 case. The 6xc is. Get your facts straight.
The Creed has a 30 degree shoulder.
The Creed has a small case taper. Both increase accuracy.
Everybody make good Creed brass.
Hard to get any brass for the 244 or 6mmrem.
Can get srp for Creed.
Constantly have to trim the 6mmrem.
The taper in the case makes it flow.
Really need a long action to make the 6mmrem correctly with long bullets.
Creed's come with 8 twist barrels already. Your 6mmrems need rebarreled or your stuck with lighter bullets.
Yes the 6mmrem or 244 is a great old cartridge but the 6 Creed is a modern case designed to work in short actions and use high bc bullets. It's just better.
Go ahead and sling all the mud you want. But you know it's better. It's very popular for a reason. It does everything it's advertised to do and more.
Shep
 
simple if you hand load a 6mm Remington is the very best. it has a long neck and is light years ahead of the 6mm creeless, which is nothing but a 250/3000 case. I do not believe you can build any 6mm to out shoot the 6 remington. it is the max. anything more is just a barrel burner that will be less accurate because of high pressure -which is not a good thing for accuracy.. If remington had built their first 244 with a 1-10 twist there would be few 243's. I load my 85 gr bullets with 414 or 760 same powder to 3050 which is about 3 grains under max. in a 20 " bbl. and I remove a lot of Gophers every year.
I won't agree or disagree that Remingtons 6 is the best. They have a strong argument. However, the .240Wby will match accuracy in a well built rifle and will noticeably out-perform the 6mmRem and .243Win especially with heavier bullets. You get more than high pressure with Roys 6. you get more velocity, more energy, less drift, and just slightly more recoil. If I had the once in a lifetime tag for a sheep or goat...I wouldn't take a 6mm, but if I had to, definitely the .240 Wby.
 
okay, since you said you did not want any of the rounds that I was going to suggest, how about an old, vintage round that was the original 6MM mag.. the 6MM Sako Magnum. it has legs, you can put a tight twist barrel and launch 105's from it for those longer shots, it's well established round in Europe and it came over here too.
my next suggestion is a very undervalued round.. 6MM Rem. that one is not the 6MM Sako but it is a great 6MM and it will take on long shots.
my third suggestion will be the 6MM-06 it has legs, it can have the tight twist barrel and use the heaviest slugs. 6MM-06 is just about the 6MM Sako.
fourth suggestion is the 6X57 AI.. this one is nearly the 6MM-06 in a shorter case.

all these cases can be found in multiple places.. the reloading dies can be found in various places.. the 6MM Sako will be at CH4 dies.
 
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