Best hunting scope ever?

[The Oregonian]

Honestly, and maybe I'm too pessimistic, I see the Sig system as encouraging unethical behavior. I think for a lot of guys there's going to be a temptation to take shots well beyond what they have practiced and/or verified. Consider the following scenario:

Hunter has this system, he's zeroed and confirmed drops out to the 300 yard max range he's got in his home state back east. He doesn't realize he's 100 FPS off what the box claims for his ammo, because that's only about an inch difference (well inside his group size at that distance).

He's done his homework reasonably well, he thinks. He ranges and shoots a 10" rock when he gets there, 450 yards. Hit! He was towards the bottom of the rock, but a hit is a hit, further than anything he's ever shot before. "That's my limit," he says to himself.

Last day of the season, after a week of hard hunting, a buck steps out at 525 yards. Only 75 more than he said was his limit. How many hunters will resist the temptation of that little glowing dot of not-so-long-ago-NASA level ballistics calculation and computing power saying, "just hold here. It's easy!"

That 100 FPS is now 5" more drop at 525 than what the computer thinks, and we haven't even started talking about wind.

There's what I think is an unwarranted level of confidence in the technology when it puts the dot in the reticle. I think people have a much more reasonable understanding of their capabilities when they put a drop chart together or at least run their own calculations and turn the dial themselves. I think turning that elevation turret further than you ever have before is a much bigger deterrent to taking that unethical shot. I think people will put too much blind faith in that dot for a 600+ yard shot because the technology says "hold right here."

How is that any different from a LRF with a ballistics engine? One is done automatically, one takes a turn of the turrets, but in your scenario either one could lead to your result.

 

[ButterBean]

That is BAD news and kinda stupid for states to ban scope/rangefinder connections. The SIG BDX stuff makes for less wounded game.

Why do you think its stupid ?

 

[ButterBean]

I'm a fan of Sig products as well as Nightforce and Leupold. They all have quality products and the things you listed are all fine and techie fun stuff but you, as the hunter/rifleman, need to have some skill set to hit your target without those things. In the end, when the batteries are dead...whadya got??

A club that they have no idea what to with other than use it for a walking stick is what they have

 

[eric1115]

No doubt it could,

How is that any different from a LRF with a ballistics engine? One is done automatically, one takes a turn of the turrets, but in your scenario either one could lead to your result.

No doubt it could, idiots are going to be idiots (and I say that as a recovering idiot myself).

Edit to add: the LRF and ballistic toothpaste is already out of the tube, there's no putting it back in even if we wanted to. We are not past the point of no return on scopes with automatic aiming points. End of edit.

I do think that taking away that step of turning the elevation dial removes one more mental checkpoint in the "should I really be doing this?" internal dialog. Going from "hit the target with my laser" straight to "here is your magic aiming point" stops people from having a moment of, "wow that is a lot of clicks, maybe I ought to rethink this plan."

Again, maybe I'm a cynic Luddite. Maybe I'm too optimistic on people's willingness to stop and think. Maybe the portion of the Venn diagram that is comprised of people who will take the shot with the BDX system but not a ballistic calculator and elevation turret is too tiny of a sliver to worry about.

I worry about the same mindset with CDS/yardage dials, but those are everywhere and seem to mostly not end in disaster.

 

[The Oregonian]

Why do you think its stupid ?

I agree...if the average hunter's skillset has degraded to the point that ranging and dialing is too error prone, we are becoming too dependent on technology and are losing even the most basic of skills needed to hunt.

Of course, people may have said the same thing about LRF's years ago, but I agree with you Bean.

 

[ButterBean]

I agree...if the average hunter's skillset has degraded to the point that ranging and dialing is too error prone, we are becoming too dependent on technology and are losing even the most basic of skills needed to hunt.

Of course, people may have said the same thing about LRF's years ago, but I agree with you Bean.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[eric1115]

If your theoretical hunter is like most American hunters, he will aim high regardless and make a great shot. I don't think bagging on any new system is necessarily the right thing to do. Its a slippery slope leading us back to running game off cliffs with spears and rocks. Talking about longer shots on game I think what we have issue wise is more likely lots of people with no tools in hand to make shot adjustments taking to the field and using Kentucky windage shooting at game. I hear and see them every year in the Coues deer woods firing shot after shot at a deer they have no idea how to hit. If Litehiker like the Sig System I say go for it. Learn to use it, take a long range shooting class, practice your butt off, learn to call wind etc. If you don't like the system don't use it. Personally I think once people try them the technical overhead involved in practical use and issue that arise will cause these types of systems to fade from the market. I doubt Gunwerks is selling very many Revic Scopes (lots of tech), but they have sold a ton of their G7 BR2s (single press elevation and wind data) which a new version will soon be available.

I think the slippery slope is much steeper on the other side of the ridge, that stuff like tracking point technology (obviously in it's infancy) and drones and cell phone trail cams that send you a text when something walks by, are a much bigger threat to hunting overall. When/if enough of the general population decides it's no longer fair chase, hunting goes away.

I do practice with my stuff; understanding what goes into getting hits at 1000 is part of why I think that giving a hunter a dot at 800 yards is going to instill a false level of confidence in a lot of guys. I know how much goes into shooting at distance, and the combination of tech like this and Best of the West type shows is not doing good things for western hunting IMO.

I do feel like I see more irresponsible shooting now than I did ten years ago here in Idaho. I do think part of that is people having the ballistic calculator that spits out a number that hasn't been verified, much less practiced from field shooting positions.

That and steel. I realize I'm sounding very curmudgeonly right now, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys bang away at 300-400 on full size ipsc targets, feeling pretty good about going 5 for 5, then can't get a single hit out of 5 shots on the 8" round plate at 525. A 5 shot 12" group at 350 yards isn't something anyone is going to brag about, but 5/5 on a 12" plate is perfection for way too many.

 

[The Oregonian]

Recently Sig/Sauer came out with their Sierra6 BDX line of scopes. These scopes are Bluetooth tech marvels with decent glass.

My choice for a long distance hunting scope (to 1,000 yards for antelope) would be the 3 - 18 x 44 Sierra6 BDX (Ballistic Data Exchange) paired with the SIG KILO300 BDX 10 x 42 range finding binoculars and a Kestrel 5700. ALL of these pieces of gear connect with each other with Bluetooth. Can I hear an "Amen!" for Bluetooth?

MODES OF USE FOR SIG SIERRA6 BDX SCOPES:
1.) as a stand-alone scope with main crosshars and "Christmas tree" dots reticle
2.) with a BDX range finding monocular or BDX binoculars giving you lighted vertical hold-over dots
3.) with a BDX rangefinder and the Kestrel 5700 for EXACT vertical and windage lighted hold points

You already use a rifle scope. You already carry binoculars. To the Sierra6 scopes just add SIG BDX monoculars or BDX binoculars and either SIG's Bluetooth weather meter or the Kestrel 5700 weather meter & ballistic engine with your rifle's exact ballistics for several loads. This gives you the windage and the vertical hold that has the added weather info in the final hold solutions. With the Kestrel you also get much more weather data and rifle/cartridge data for an optimum firing solution.

Currently i have a 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro with a Bushnell LRTS 4.5 - 18 x 44 illuminated G3 reticle. Also a Bushnell ARC 1 Mile laser rangefinder 10 x 42 binoculars. Yeah, they work pretty well together because I know from range testing how to "adjust" for the binoculars' hold readout. Bushnell uses a "library" of 8 ballistic curves for ammo to give you ballpark vertical hold points for your cartridge. You still have to "true" your holds at the range in 50 yard increments from 200 to 800 yards (my shooting window) for more exact holds and still you have no windage info beyond your experience - or a Kestrel 5700. And if you have the Kestrel 5700 you just use its readout for perfect hold AFTER entering the range manually. "Old" tech gear with a new tech Kestrel 5700

So now you see "the beauty of Bluetooth" in SIG's optics - speed and accuracy.
Eric B.
BTW, SIG has other BDX scopes. All have "Level-Plex" internal lighted dots at the right and left ends of the horizontal crosshairs. Tilt too far left and the left dot lights up. Tilt back right and it goes out at the level position. Same for the other side. Yeah, I know, amazing.

The kestrel cannot give you the exact wind hold as you state in 3) above, unless there is consistent wind all the way from where you are to where the target is. It will give you the wind hold as if it were consistent, which it almost never is.

 

[gpo1956]

The kestrel cannot give you the exact wind hold as you state in 3) above, unless there is consistent wind all the way from where you are to where the target is. It will give you the wind hold as if it were consistent, which it almost never is.

I really don't understand the logic here. You make it sound like some information is good to have, but some isn't. I guess it's better to trust your own judgement and wind estimates than to utilize the wind function of a Kestrel?

 

[The Oregonian]

I really don't understand the logic here. You make it sound like some information is good to have, but some isn't. I guess it's better to trust your own judgement and wind estimates than to utilize the wind function of a Kestrel?

I was reacting to this statement by OP….."3.) with a BDX rangefinder and the Kestrel 5700 for EXACT vertical and windage lighted hold points", which makes the scope sound like it is capable of something that it cannot do.

 

[Maol]

Kestrel gives wind at the rifle. The wind at the other end and in between matters more. It wont give you that. Those numbers you need to learn how to get the old school way.

 

[gpo1956]

Oregonian, I understand. I misunderstood your point.

 

[antelopedundee]

I can barely get my headphones to consistently Bluetooth to my phone.

Or hearing aids. A friend just got one of those neurostimulators for pain relief. Apparently even those are controllable with luetooth.