Best Custom Match Grade Barrels

[lazylabs]

I have been watching this and with some hesitation......... There really needs to be some quantification if the comments are to mean anything.

XXXXX is the best shooting barrel I have......

Does that mean a 50 cal shoots 8" groups at 50 yards? Does that mean a 6br shoots in the 1's?

The gunsmith comments also come under the same blanket... If a smith prefers and believes that a cut barrel is better he will recommend and fit 80% cut barrels, so his best shooting barrels will probably be cut barrels. The same would apply for a different guy picking button barrels. They are not wrong or biased they are just working off thier experiences.

I believe you have to ask what kind of barrel you want... ie steel type, caliber, length, twist and see who is running the best record with those type of barrels at the time.

If you call XXX and tell them you want a 9.4 twist you will get a different repsonse when calling Krieger vs Shilen. If you want a specific groove spec, num of lands/grooves, different depths, bore size, rockwell hardness.............

In a poll where shaw = obermeyer I would venture to say the results are inconclusive

 

[shortgrass]

In a poll where shaw = obermeyer I would venture to say the results are inconclusive

I wouldn't call the results "inconclusive",,,,,,,,, I'd call them worthless!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have been watching this and with some hesitation......... There really needs to be some quantification if the comments are to mean anything.

XXXXX is the best shooting barrel I have......

Does that mean a 50 cal shoots 8" groups at 50 yards? Does that mean a 6br shoots in the 1's?

The gunsmith comments also come under the same blanket... If a smith prefers and believes that a cut barrel is better he will recommend and fit 80% cut barrels, so his best shooting barrels will probably be cut barrels. The same would apply for a different guy picking button barrels. They are not wrong or biased they are just working off thier experiences.

It's of course a very subjective poll on a subject that is probably equal to nailing jello to the wall. Not really sure how this could be quantified, especially at this level. Too many variables. I probably should have titled the thread and poll "Most Preferred Custom match Grade barrels".

If you wanted to research the best performing barrels of say the past 3 years in all the competitions and crunch the numbers you might come up with something more "conclusive". But then who is to say that if John Doe, the winner of XYZ 1000 yd BR competition, had used a Broughton instead of Krieger, that the Broughton wouldn't have shot any batter? If we take a look at Krieger, which is not surprisingly leading this particular poll, they are probably the largest rpoducers of match grade barrels out there, and as such they will probably be much more represented in any particular shooting competition, than any other barrel. Sooo... they have a better chance by sheer numbers to be the winners depending on the quality of smithing, load and shooter.

I believe you have to ask what kind of barrel you want... ie steel type, caliber, length, twist and see who is running the best record with those type of barrels at the time.

My purpose was to see whcih barrels LRH members preferred based on criteria stated in the OP. Part of that included customer service and who stood behind their products based on the members experiences. Also, this being LRH vs BR Central, user needs and requirements are going to be different. i.e, not many BR shooters using Bartlein 12-7" gain twist 375 cal barrles to shoot 425 gr monos at rocks 2 1/2 miles away. Due tho the hunting aspect of this group, larger cal are generally going to be the norm with a lot of big 300 and big 338 shooters being in the group and some 375 shooters. The largets chambering you would see at any BR comp will probably be a 300 WM.

If you call XXX and tell them you want a 9.4 twist you will get a different repsonse when calling Krieger vs Shilen. If you want a specific groove spec, num of lands/grooves, different depths, bore size, rockwell hardness.............

True, and this poll is soliciting the overall preferences of the LRH membership.

In a poll where shaw = obermeyer I would venture to say the results are inconclusive

As far as which is really "the BEST", yes, I agree. Not all that conclusive as has been mentioned numerous times already. I think most of us would agree that most of the listed barrels makers are so close in quality it's about impossible to come with a ranking from top to bottom. Which is a good thing for us as their customers.

I am actually quite surprised that Obermeyer doesn't have more vote. To the best of my knowledge, his barrels are of excellent quality and reputation, and at least as good as many of the others with more votes. Maybe it's because most of his clientele are not members here or some other reason or combination of reasons?

I wouldn't call the results "inconclusive",,,,,,,,, I'd call them worthless!

I wouldn't call it worthless. A lot of good input so far IMO. And for the most part the results are about what I would expect. Especially with Krieger having a clear lead from the rest of the pack. But once again, that might be due to the fact that they produce more barrels than the others... at least I think they do.

Nahhh, not worthless... I think new members here who are looking for their first Match Grade barrel will find this thread very interesting. And a lot of us will find it interesting and informative in general.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

I can't bring myself to vote, I have no quantifiable data to prove that one of the 3 or 4 lowly Shilen's I have are inferior to either of the 2 Obermeyer's or the lone Kreiger in my stable.

They all shoot <.5moa @ 100. They all serve their intended purpose to the extent of my needs.

Preference? I still can't say. I will share one particular factoid. Obermeyer's flutes suck Boots knows the inside of a barrel better than any (IMHO) but his attention to the details of the finished product are not atop the pile.

Shilen barrels are cheap, button pulled fodder. But the multiple 100yd groups in the .3's out of my 6mmAI don't lie....

I'm seriously thinking of trying out one of the new Mullerworks (or whatever they're called) barrels on a future project, they seem to be gathering quite the reputation.

My .002 is to buy which ever is available in the caliber, contour, twist you want & shoot the heck out of it. My experience says you won't be sorry.


t

 

[crankshaft]

I will use and only use Shaw. I don't believe in all this hype with the other barrels like 5R rifling, lapped 4 times with gold, rifled using a diamond rifling button blah blah blah. I'm sure they are fine, but the 3 Shaws I own they all shoot sub moa at 100 yards. Hell my 17 Rem can shoot 5 shots in 1 hole at 100. I'll take that and the money I save using them and put it towards ammo so I can actually shoot

 

[Sargesniper]

I have been reading everyones comments with interest. I was not going to comment on which is best because it is only what you like best. My comment is this: A stock Rem. 700 Varmit contour barrel will and does shoot right along side of custom barrels if you know how to prep it before you shoot it. I have 2 700's in .308 that shoot as good as you want. I also have a Bartlein barreled .260 that shoots very well. I have a Kreiger barreled .22/250 that does not shoot like it should. Remington
has some of the best rifle barrels around in my opinion. It's what you like that makes a difference.
SEMPER FI .......... SARGESNIPER

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have been reading everyones comments with interest. I was not going to comment on which is best because it is only what you like best. My comment is this: A stock Rem. 700 Varmit contour barrel will and does shoot right along side of custom barrels if you know how to prep it before you shoot it. I have 2 700's in .308 that shoot as good as you want. I also have a Bartlein barreled .260 that shoots very well. I have a Kreiger barreled .22/250 that does not shoot like it should. Remington
has some of the best rifle barrels around in my opinion. It's what you like that makes a difference.
SEMPER FI .......... SARGESNIPER

I believe on average that a match grade barrel is going to out shoot a stock factory barrel. The manufacturing processes and resulting quality are vastly different. Sure, you will get some good shooters and the Sendero's and Heavy Varmint barreled rifles usually shoot very well. That said, if you shoot them side by side with the custom rigs, on average the customs will win.

I had a Sendero in 300 RUM and on a good day it would shoot .4 MOA and averaged just under .5 MOA My new 300 RUM with Broughton barrel is showing .2 MOA potential. Granted, the new rifle has a trued action, but I really doubt if I switched out a factory Sendero barrel into it that it would match it. Beside that, the Broughton cleans up MUCH easier than the Sendero did and I broke both barrels in using the one shot and clean method.

Somewhere on this site is a borescope comparison of a factory barrel and a match grade barrel. The difference speaks for itself.

Coldhammer forged barrels are about the best in the factory world and Howa/Vangurds, SAKO/Tikka and Coopers use this process. Not sure what other manufacturers use this process but I don't recall Remington using it?

My 223 Vanguard is the least fouling, easiest rifle I have to clean with the 300 RUM a close second. When I went to break it in, i did not see any trace of copper until about 50 rounds through it and I cleaned after each of the first 3 shots, then after each 5 shots for another 20 shots, then after about another 30 shots when I saw the first trace of copper and only on the first patch. Now after about 300 rounds through it, I see copper on the first patch and maybe sometimes the second patch after maybe 50 rounds or more through it. My other Howa made rifle, 7 RM S&W M1500 is a moderate fouler, not as bad as my Sendero was.

 

[Sargesniper]

I believe on average that a match grade barrel is going to out shoot a stock factory barrel. The manufacturing processes and resulting quality are vastly different. Sure, you will get some good shooters and the Sendero's and Heavy Varmint barreled rifles usually shoot very well. That said, if you shoot them side by side with the custom rigs, on average the customs will win.

I had a Sendero in 300 RUM and on a good day it would shoot .4 MOA and averaged just under .5 MOA My new 300 RUM with Broughton barrel is showing .2 MOA potential. Granted, the new rifle has a trued action, but I really doubt if I switched out a factory Sendero barrel into it that it would match it. Beside that, the Broughton cleans up MUCH easier than the Sendero did and I broke both barrels in using the one shot and clean method.

Somewhere on this site is a borescope comparison of a factory barrel and a match grade barrel. The difference speaks for itself.

Coldhammer forged barrels are about the best in the factory world and Howa/Vangurds, SAKO/Tikka and Coopers use this process. Not sure what other manufacturers use this process but I don't recall Remington using it?

My 223 Vanguard is the least fouling, easiest rifle I have to clean with the 300 RUM a close second. When I went to break it in, i did not see any trace of copper until about 50 rounds through it and I cleaned after each of the first 3 shots, then after each 5 shots for another 20 shots, then after about another 30 shots when I saw the first trace of copper and only on the first patch. Now after about 300 rounds through it, I see copper on the first patch and maybe sometimes the second patch after maybe 50 rounds or more through it. My other Howa made rifle, 7 RM S&W M1500 is a moderate fouler, not as bad as my Sendero was.

I agree that a custom will clean easily but with some effort a Rem. barrel can be made to clean easy also if proper prep methods are used before the first round is fired through it. I have two .308 stock Rem. varmit barrels that shoot and clean up very good. You just have to put some TLC on them BEFORE you shoot the first round through it. Both of them will shoot .1-.3 with a good load as will a custom barrel.
My last time out with the new Rem. Varmit Barrel shot a .792" @ 300 yds. The older one shot just over 1.00". I spent a lot of time with these barrels before i shot them and i see the results when i take them out to shoot. Like i said before, it is what you like that makes a difference. I am not trying to convince anyone to abandon their custom barrels. I am only saying what i have experienced with Rem. 700's. In my opinion they can be made to shoot better right out of the box with som effort on your part. So i will tell everyone to shoot what you have confidence in. After all,it is a sport we all love to indulge in, Right? Thanks for listening to my side of the story. SEMPER FI ......... SARGESNIPER

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I agree that a custom will clean easily but with some effort a Rem. barrel can be made to clean easy also if proper prep methods are used before the first round is fired through it. I have two .308 stock Rem. varmit barrels that shoot and clean up very good. You just have to put some TLC on them BEFORE you shoot the first round through it. Both of them will shoot .1-.3 with a good load as will a custom barrel.
My last time out with the new Rem. Varmit Barrel shot a .792" @ 300 yds. The older one shot just over 1.00". I spent a lot of time with these barrels before i shot them and i see the results when i take them out to shoot. Like i said before, it is what you like that makes a difference. I am not trying to convince anyone to abandon their custom barrels. I am only saying what i have experienced with Rem. 700's. In my opinion they can be made to shoot better right out of the box with som effort on your part. So i will tell everyone to shoot what you have confidence in. After all,it is a sport we all love to indulge in, Right? Thanks for listening to my side of the story. SEMPER FI ......... SARGESNIPER

I don't think there is really a whole lot we can do to make a barrel shoot any better, be it a custom or factory barrel. Rifles yes, barrels no. There is a lot that goes into the making of a barrel that will affect it's accuracy potential. Rifling tooling and methods, proper stress relieving, bore straightness, lapping chamber concentricity, etc. The custom barrel makers put a lot more effort into these areas than the factory barrel makers. That is why they cost so much more. You get what you pay for. By the time they get to us they are what they are.

Now we can condition barrels to foul a little less by breaking them in, but I don't think we can do anything that will significantly change accuracy.

 

[rick523]

I agree that a custom will clean easily but with some effort a Rem. barrel can be made to clean easy also if proper prep methods are used before the first round is fired through it. I have two .308 stock Rem. varmit barrels that shoot and clean up very good. You just have to put some TLC on them BEFORE you shoot the first round through it. Both of them will shoot .1-.3 with a good load as will a custom barrel.
My last time out with the new Rem. Varmit Barrel shot a .792" @ 300 yds. The older one shot just over 1.00". I spent a lot of time with these barrels before i shot them and i see the results when i take them out to shoot. Like i said before, it is what you like that makes a difference. I am not trying to convince anyone to abandon their custom barrels. I am only saying what i have experienced with Rem. 700's. In my opinion they can be made to shoot better right out of the box with som effort on your part. So i will tell everyone to shoot what you have confidence in. After all,it is a sport we all love to indulge in, Right? Thanks for listening to my side of the story. SEMPER FI ......... SARGESNIPER

IMO there is a little more to a custom barrel than ease of cleaning, I own several Rem.700's they shoot pretty well just to name a couple one started life as a sps varmint heavy barrel in .223. It now sits in a HS Precision stock, has Jewel trigger installed, bedded, sako extractor, it does however wear a factory barrel. It cleans up pretty quick but not as easily as a custom. Another is a .308 VSSF with again a jewel trigger, sako extractor, and a brake. It will hold .75 moa out to 1000 which is pretty good for a pretty much stock factory rifle, but it is a bitch to clean. Always has been. The one I am most disappointed in however is a 5R Mil Spec in 300wm this is a pretty high $ rifle. Before I ever shoot it I had to send it back to Remington, they failed to finish the chamber. You could not chamber a round, they did get it back to me pretty quick 3 weeks.

When it came back you could chamber a round in it, but upon extraction it came out with scratches you would have to see to believe, and was extremely hard to eject. This time I took it to my smith he put a match chamber polishing job on it, after wards it fed and ejected like glass, with pristine cases not a hint of a scratch. So off to the range I go, 6 shots later the factory ejector came apart. It now also sports a sako extractor, I had already installed a jewel trigger. It shoots fairly well but in all fairness I haven't really worked up the load I am wanting to using 215 bergers since they are harder to find than a snow ball in the Bahamas. It will clean up pretty easy, still not as easy as my krieger's and none of them are even close to shooting in the same ballpark as the customs. If there was not a market for custom barrels no one would be building them.... And we would all be shooting factory barrels. Just my $.02

 

[Sargesniper]

IMO there is a little more to a custom barrel than ease of cleaning, I own several Rem.700's they shoot pretty well just to name a couple one started life as a sps varmint heavy barrel in .223. It now sits in a HS Precision stock, has Jewel trigger installed, bedded, sako extractor, it does however wear a factory barrel. It cleans up pretty quick but not as easily as a custom. Another is a .308 VSSF with again a jewel trigger, sako extractor, and a brake. It will hold .75 moa out to 1000 which is pretty good for a pretty much stock factory rifle, but it is a bitch to clean. Always has been. The one I am most disappointed in however is a 5R Mil Spec in 300wm this is a pretty high $ rifle. Before I ever shoot it I had to send it back to Remington, they failed to finish the chamber. You could not chamber a round, they did get it back to me pretty quick 3 weeks.

When it came back you could chamber a round in it, but upon extraction it came out with scratches you would have to see to believe, and was extremely hard to eject. This time I took it to my smith he put a match chamber polishing job on it, after wards it fed and ejected like glass, with pristine cases not a hint of a scratch. So off to the range I go, 6 shots later the factory ejector came apart. It now also sports a sako extractor, I had already installed a jewel trigger. It shoots fairly well but in all fairness I haven't really worked up the load I am wanting to using 215 bergers since they are harder to find than a snow ball in the Bahamas. It will clean up pretty easy, still not as easy as my krieger's and none of them are even close to shooting in the same ballpark as the customs. If there was not a market for custom barrels no one would be building them.... And we would all be shooting factory barrels. Just my $.02

I cannot and will not bad mouth custom barrels. For the intended purpose they are great. I have 2. One Kreiger,One Bartlein. One shoots very well the other does not.
When i get a new rifle from the factory I do a very thorough cleaning of the bore. After the cleaning i prep the bore. It will clean very easy after this method i use and there will be no copper build up. The same as you will find in a custom barrel. Both of the .308's i have shoot extremely well. Right out of the box many Remington rifles will shoot good groups. When i finish with one it will shoot better for me than one i just pick up and shoot. This new one shoots extremely well. Maybe it will not shoot as good as some custom barrel but you will have a very hard time convincing me. I only base this on my personal experience with them
Like i said, i will not trash a custom barrel or anyone who likes them. If i thought i could rebarrel a rifle with a Rem. barrel of my choice i would do it in a heart beat.
Thanks for your reply. ........... SARGESNIPER

 

[FEENIX]

Why complicate the poll for something that is NOT!

Mark asked ...

Out of interest, I thought I would post this poll to see which custom match grade barrels LRH members prefer. Let's consider accuracy, other quality issues, customer service and standing behind their product.

I listed 15 of what I think are probably the most popular. If I didn't list yours let us know.

Simply pick one out of the choices and move on. gun)

Cheers!

BTW, tonight is going to be Belvedere straight on the rocks kinda night!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Why complicate the poll for something that is NOT!

Mark asked ...



Simply pick one out of the choices and move on. gun)

Cheers!

BTW, tonight is going to be Belvedere straight on the rocks kinda night!

Cheers and an enjoyable evening to ya Ed! A little Jamie on the rocks don't sound bad

 

[FEENIX]

Cheers and an enjoyable evening to ya Ed! A little Jamie on the rocks don't sound bad

... and to you as well!

Ed