Berger to introduce 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid Hunting Bullet

[trappers son]

I had Kiff build me a reamer based off of 7mm weatherby brass but the case is blown out with an improved shoulder and has 91 grain h20 capacity at the top of the neck.... it has a .2 throat and shoots pretty accurately.... At 200 yards it shoots a 5 shot quarter minute moa and at a thousand with 15 to 20 mile an hour winds it shoots around a 7 inch group but the vertical is real tight and the group size was mostly horizontal from changes in wind. It is a low charged node for the rifle but it has real good sd's in the 4's.
The nice thing about the case is that it has plenty of neck to hold on to the bullet. It has more than a 7mm rem or 300 case. I have never pushed it hard though and it is only pushing the 180 hybrid at 2920. I never looked for the high end node but I may some day... It is a nice compromise so the barrel will last a bit longer. I am only pushing 68.5 grains of h1000. I need to see what kind of pressure signs I will find but am hoping I can find the high end node around 3050 for hunting. It is hard on brass to push it hard though and I want to at least get 5 loads or more out of the brass since I have to fire form them....
Kiff did a good job on the reamer and was a nice guy to talk to.... I would recommend him as well. He had the reamer in hand the day before my smith called me to turn a barrel for me.

 

[chuckhammer]

With 91 gr H20 capacity in an H&H mag parent wildcat you can do better than 3050 with Berger 180s. Depending on your barrel length, I'd expect to see 3150 at a minimum and 3200 is reasonable with a 27" tube. Try Reloader 33 if you haven't yet.

 

[Blacktail63]

I ordered my 195s on Thursday they got here yesterday(I live 25 miles away). Started on some measurements. I have a long throated 28Nosler(1 in 8) built on a Win 70 RUM action. At max mag length of 3.65" my measurement to ogive was 2.88 - exactly what the measurement to ogive was for the Nosler 175ABLR when it was maxed out 3.56"; leaving the bottom bearing even with the bottom of the neck. The Berger 180s are pretty close to the same as the ABLR with a little longer OAL. I could install a Wyatts box and extend the 195s to almost 3.8" but everything else would have to jump a ways. Not worried about the ABLRs because I've had to jump them .05 to .1 in everything else to get them shooting well. Would you shoot as is or add the Wyatts? The smith will throat to what ever spec I give him.

 

[trappers son]

I have a 28 inch barrel on her and I have a few pounds of reloader 33.... I never could get good accuracy or sd's out of it on the high end on my old barrel, but I will try it sooner or later. I also get better luck with faster burning powders because there is less pressure at the muzzle so the bullet comes out with less randomness... If you look at consistently accurate guns and cartridges for the most part, they produce low muzzle pressure and they are easier to tune and most of the time the nodes have more tolerance to variations between loads...
I go through a barrel a year if I'm rich enough and have time to practice like I should. I'm more worried about consistency than velocity.... range finders take care of my vertical no matter how fast I go, my main concern is reading wind properly and having confidence in my set up from start to finish.
I'll push it harder for the 195's though if I can get away with it. I'm hoping for a good node in the 2900's if I'm lucky.... Anything more will be just a bonus....

 

[mrb1982]

Sounds like 2900 should be fairly attainable. I was thinking the same thing, but others have aspirations s of being able to do 3100 so now I am hopefully that I can get 3000 without too much pressure but we will see. This is a hunting gun for me so it tends to be a little more about performance for me I guess.

From what some of you guys are saying, it sounds like we might be able to get away with the same style reamer that is used for the 180 hybrids, huh? My bullets don't get here till Thursday or Friday so I haven't had the chance to compare yet.

 

[chuckhammer]

I have a 28 inch barrel on her and I have a few pounds of reloader 33.... I never could get good accuracy or sd's out of it on the high end on my old barrel, but I will try it sooner or later. I also get better luck with faster burning powders because there is less pressure at the muzzle so the bullet comes out with less randomness... If you look at consistently accurate guns and cartridges for the most part, they produce low muzzle pressure and they are easier to tune and most of the time the nodes have more tolerance to variations between loads...
I go through a barrel a year if I'm rich enough and have time to practice like I should. I'm more worried about consistency than velocity.... range finders take care of my vertical no matter how fast I go, my main concern is reading wind properly and having confidence in my set up from start to finish.
I'll push it harder for the 195's though if I can get away with it. I'm hoping for a good node in the 2900's if I'm lucky.... Anything more will be just a bonus....

The muzzle pressure effect makes perfect sense, however I believe it's effect on accuracy is secondary to barrel harmonics. I'm such a speed freak that I always look for the slowest powder available for a given cartridge and bullet combination. This maximizes the area under the pressure vs. time curve. Similar to yourself, I also have a 28" barrel but mine has a 1" straight taper (barrel alone weighs 6 lb) which helps to truly minimize harmonics. The result is I don't need to pay nearly as much attention to nodes. I can basically shoot a given bullet to its maximum velocity potential for a given powder and seating depth. The downside, of course, is rifle weight. To balance out that tank of a barrel I added lead ballast to the hollow butt stock. Including scope and rings, my rig weighs 17 lb! It's really a bench rest or F-Class type setup rather than hunting. But she ain't picky.

 

[chuckhammer]

Sounds like 2900 should be fairly attainable. I was thinking the same thing, but others have aspirations s of being able to do 3100 so now I am hopefully that I can get 3000 without too much pressure but we will see. This is a hunting gun for me so it tends to be a little more about performance for me I guess.

From what some of you guys are saying, it sounds like we might be able to get away with the same style reamer that is used for the 180 hybrids, huh? My bullets don't get here till Thursday or Friday so I haven't had the chance to compare yet.

For identical seating depth and jump/jam, the throat depth is going to be about .080 greater for the 195 vs. 180 Hybrid.

 

[trappers son]

17 pound rig is probably good and steady as well.... mine has a sporter stock and the rest is barrel..... 1.3 diameter 4 inch shank tapered to .8 (no break).... mine is finicky to shooter error being as light as it is so I have to practice a lot. the higher velocities start to amplify the effects of shooter error as well. I shoot with a bunch of nice fellas in 1000 yard bench rest comps and they are nice enough to let me shoot my hunting rifle off a bipod. the rapid fire burns barrels quickly so I try to mitigate it with lower velocities and powder charges.
sounds like you have a nice set up, and I agree about barrel harmonics.

 

[clemens]

Does the 7rm have enough powder capacity to make this a good choice. I know some are getting good velocity from the 180's. What kind of velocities be possible with 195's?

 

[chuckhammer]

17 pound rig is probably good and steady as well.... mine has a sporter stock and the rest is barrel..... 1.3 diameter 4 inch shank tapered to .8 (no break).... mine is finicky to shooter error being as light as it is so I have to practice a lot. the higher velocities start to amplify the effects of shooter error as well. I shoot with a bunch of nice fellas in 1000 yard bench rest comps and they are nice enough to let me shoot my hunting rifle off a bipod. the rapid fire burns barrels quickly so I try to mitigate it with lower velocities and powder charges.
sounds like you have a nice set up, and I agree about barrel harmonics.

Thanks, I've been wanting to add a true hunting rig such as yours to my stable but I spend most of my time with handguns so it's tough to rationalize.

I'm jealous of your bench rest crew. The guys I know are mostly into action pistol and bowling pins. I like that stuff too but I need some variety. Maybe I'll sneak in a whitetail hunt this season.

 

[chuckhammer]

Does the 7rm have enough powder capacity to make this a good choice. I know some are getting good velocity from the 180's. What kind of velocities be possible with 195's?

I need to put together the necessary line of code to run this bullet in QuickLoad. Off hand, I'd estimate something like 2850 from a 26" with Reloader 33 doing the work. Add another 30-35 fps per inch of additional barrel.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

26" barrel and Reloader-33

The 28 Nosler throated for a 3.7 COAL should make 3000-3150 pretty easy.
The 7mmRM throated for a 3.6 COAL should make 2750-2850 at the same pressures.

I'm bummed that I have only 9twist barrels. May have to pop for an 8tw.

 

[esshup]

26" barrel and Reloader-33

The 28 Nosler throated for a 3.7 COAL should make 3000-3150 pretty easy.
The 7mmRM throated for a 3.6 COAL should make 2750-2850 at the same pressures.

I'm bummed that I have only 9twist barrels. May have to pop for an 8tw.

How many grains of powder does the 28 Nosler typically have shoving a bullet that weighs 180g?

 

[esshup]

The bullets showed up in todays mail. FWIW, the box is marked minimum twist 1 in 9.2", optimpal twist 1 in 8.3"