Berger close up on game performance

[mawbro]

This was a very large bodied 2008 5 point bull Elk shot broadside on a trot at 125 yds with a 26" barreled custom 300 RUM, Berger 210 VLD. Bullet entered right side and exit thru the left as you can see from damage to lungs. This guy was on the move with the whole herd in single file and didn't miss a step. I was very upset to see him trot off with the rest of the herd. Of course I went to check for blood and found the typical massive blood trail from a lung shot exit wound. This guy had enough blood and stamina to travel 250 yds and pile up. The exit wounds (3 from fragments) were grouped around 3". I used a Berger hunting bullet and not a target FYI. This is what can happen when you use a very high powered fast heavy explosive bullet at close range. Of course I regret that it took so long for it to die but I do not believe it would have went down 1 foot closer if I poked it with and arrow or 200 grain Accubond. Berger told me it might have went down sooner with lighter bullet but I was set up for long range and this scenario was unexpected. Berger bullets are deadly and if you do your part you won't have to track anything very far.

 

[cynicrit]

Liquified the lungs. Just saying. Liquified the lungs (and heart, and a couple of ribs) on multiple deer myself, with bullets that came out the other side. 1st buck I ever killed was with a full bore lead muzzle loader bullet, through heart, and lungs, and both sides, at 40 yards. He ran 125 yds. You could have dipped out everything between his ribs with a cup. He was chasing 2 does, so there are things besides bullet performance which impact this. Sounds like your bullet performed as advertised, killed the animal quickly, and left it where you could retrieve it. All is well that ends well.

 

[Bang4theBuck]

Shot some absolute hogs up in Canada and have used a variety of bullets. SST's, Ballistic tips, Accubonds, Partitions etc, most have died almost in there tracks but bullet performance under 250 yards was obvious, most are not tough enough to go all the way through if you hit some resistance. Any decently constructed bullet should not be held up by a couple of ribs. I am trying Berger 190 VLDs this hunting season on Moose Elk and whitetails. Blowing up inside the lungs is not an acceptable performance.

Double Dropper, it states clearly in all of Berger's published data that their hunting bullets are designed to penetrate a short distance and then initiate an energy dump via rapid (almost explosive) expansion. It also states that the bullet will lose a significant amount of it's original weight. This, in my mind, says that if hit in the lungs, the bullet is going 'blow up' in the lungs. If this isnt acceptable performance for you, you might want to shy away from the Berger brand.

 

[JC in Calif]

I'm going to make sure this doesn't start out the wrong way, so lets be clear, I shot an cow elk on Saturday from 200 yards with a berger bullet, she is very dead and died quickly. My family will enjoy the meat!

Now, the details: Im shooting a 7mm Mag with 180 Berger Hybrids at 2990 fps. I've shot 2 cow elk, 1 deer, 1 bear, and 1 antelope with this load but most those were 500+ yard shots. This shot was 200 yards broadside and I put it about 1/3 up and 4" behind the crease, perfect double lung. After the shot she immediately went behind a ridge out of sight and piled up about 100 yards out, furthest I've seen one go with this bullet. What really surprised me was there wasn't even a scratch on the offside ribcage from the bullet, it completely blew up inside the lungs, not sure how she even made it 100 yards. It was very cold and windy so I didn't stick around looing for fragments but I confirmed it liquidated the lungs. The bullet isn't near as explosive at longer range in my experience, but is this pretty normal for shots 300 yards and in?

I have not shot an Elk with a Berger. I have shot several Antelope inside of 200 yards. 6.5x284 using a 140gr VLD. They all left huge exit wounds. I hit a Whitetail using a 100jr GameKing at roughly 50 yards out of my 257 WBY. No exit wound at all, it did extreme damage inside however.

 

[Technologist]

What doubts are there exactly regarding the performance of Berger bullets at high impact velocities?

Yes, they will expand violently. Yes, they will likely shed some weight. Yes, the wound channel might not be completely straight.

The animal will likely die just as well, the relevant issues, are the risks of bullet fragments tearing up the gut or wasting meat by making it blood shot.

 

[Wyofax]

I have had multiple experiences with 140 Berger's from my 264 WM and a 6.5x284.

When I heard people talk about liquified lungs, I had no idea until I experienced it. First was with a moose at 265 yards. He took one to the lungs on his right side and turned to face straight away. After about 30 seconds he turned to face the left and took a second one in the lungs. He then started pouring blood out his mouth but he stood in the same place for 2 minutes before dropping.

We took a small mule deer at 260 with no exit and poured his vitals out rather than a normal cleaning process. He staggered around for 20 yards before falling.

We also shot a good size bull elk at 290 right on the point of the shoulder because he was bedded and that was the only shot available. He rolled over on his back and acted dead for about 2 minutes before regaining his feet. His shoulder was destroyed but we didn't get penetration into the heart lungs. One neck shot finished him up.

Summary is that high speed delivery of Berger doesn't get great penetration especially if encumbered by big bones. That being said it does what we know it does and understanding and consistency makes for easy planning.

 

[herbeapuce]

with a .243W and Berger 95 Classic hunter ...my daughter shot a young deer doe (1 year) broadside at 40 yards from a blind. perfert heart shot. DRT , most of the heart was vaporised... but no exit hole..... I couldn't believe it ...I was certain it would have passed thru,
stef.

 

[Bang4theBuck]

Has anyone used either accidentally or on purpose Berger hunting bullets as they are meant to be tougher than the hunting bullets and what results did you achieve?

I think you meant to ask of anyone has every used target bullets. If so, the answer is yes. There are those that say a 215 grain berger hybrid is one of the best performing bullets on elk, and they've proven it. I dont personally have experience with them, but I did develop a load with that bullet in my 300 WM and intend to use it next year on elk. Cant speak to which other grain weights might be effective. I donjave experience with using Amax on whitetail with very good results. More research will tell you which of the target/hybrid bullets perform well on animals.

 

[Warbird2006]

Tracking is hard enough in daylight let alone at night!

If you crush the shoulder blade (which is not that hard), you usually hit the heart and the bone fragments do additional damage. Then they don't usually go far, 5 yards in my case

 

[laker]

Did you shoot him while he was playing with friends in a mud-puddle!?!? That is just mean! Haha.
I really just wanted to say "that is a pretty gun you got there!"

He was nasty. Silt mud just ran off him when you touched him.

Thanks it's a Remington 700 6.5-06 proof sendero light McMillan edge gamewarden

 

[Greyfox]

Having used the Berger 140HVLD's for several years in my 6.5x284 from 50-1000+ yards, a shot to the chest area has always proven fatal with a very high percentage of the medium sized game I predominantly hunt, DRT, or down and dead within dozen or so yards. Penetration tends to very by range and angle but damage to the vitals is always impressive. Typical 200-600 yard performance is a bullet size entrance, 2" exit on broadside shots.

 

[Waytoofar]

Here is my antelope exit hole at 235 yards, 7mm RemMag 175gr Berger Elite Hunter going 2925fps. He still ran 75 yards before falling over.

 

[Eric Musgrove]

I'm in agreement. I tried the 200 federal tlr's with limited success. They shot good enough but kept throwing fliers after exhaustive testing.

I want to try the 200 nosler accubond but had to make a quick change prior to the hunt so I went with what I knew would shoot and that was the berger. Lots of good info on it made it easy to throw together a 1 moa load at 300 yards with no real load development.

Had bad experiences with the 200 nosler accubond in my 300 WM, I wouldn't waste your time or money but if you decide to try it anyway, my REM 700 likes H4831 the best, and was very accurate with it. But after poor performance on two Mule deer and less than 200 yards I switched to the 215 Berger Hybrid but so far I have not shot anything this year to find out if all the hype is true.

 

[kaveman1]

Usually, you worry that a bullet will pass completely through an animal at short range. Ideally, a bullet will stay in the animal and release all of its kinetic energy in the vital zone of the animal, resulting in extreme damage to the vitals. Correlate this to pistol ammo, you typically use hollow points vs. ball ammo for this very reason. I have noticed that the Berger bullets seem to penetrate well prior to coming apart vs exploding on impact. This is good since the damage makes it through the entire vital section of the animal (however, deer sized animals have pass throughs at close range with Bergers as they are just too small to stop the bullet). Its the kinetic energy that does most of the damage to the soft tissue not the actual bullet itself. The bullet pieces do contribute to the damage but not nearly as much as the kinetic energy. The biggest issue is getting blood to exit the chest cavity to leave a blood trail on larger game animals. I would be worried more about having bullets pass through and not do enough damage because of the energy that leaves with the bullet upon exit. There may not be enough kinetic energy to create enough damage to cause the animal to die within a short distance. I have shot several elk out of a 7mm Rem. Mag. with the 168 grain Berger VLD bullet with tremendous success. Shortest shot 25 yards and longest shot 200 yards. I use Bergers just incase I get that long range shot as they have more down range energy than those bonded bullets, which results in more kinetic energy when the animal is hit. I used to use Speer 175gr Grand Slams and the Bergers did more damage and are more accurate with far more down range energy at long range.