Berger Bullets vs TSX bullets

[MagMan]

Both expansion bullets broke the shoulder of the animals but DID NOT penetrate into the chest,

It has been my observation that with animals shot in the shoulder it isn't necessarily the bullet that causes the most damage its the bone said bullet hits on the way through causing the mass trauma.

I am surprised bone didn't make it trough the chest cavity on the animals you were talking about. Though in my opinion 150's & 165's seem a bit lite for a 300 WM.

I've been killing stuff with TSX's and match grade bullets for years and at this point I prefer the match bullets for an all around bullet. I also understand the need for a good bonded bullet though.

 

[pjracer]

in my opinion Barnes designed the tipped tsx to alleviate any probability of the bullet not sufficiently opening up. i found that shooting lighter bullets in the caliber range helps as well. we have switched to berger for a deer only bullet out of my sons .308 win. at first we were using 175 gr but not getting any exit holes, then switched to 155 gr and got exit wounds as well as some drt kills.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Interesting - I would have expected the opposite.

 

[pjracer]

varmint hunter
i guess we are lucky. we have used feral hogs for berger bullet testing recently. we mainly take the smaller ones around 100 to 150 lbs and occasionly take bigger ones. the 155s leave exit holes. dont know if its from the extra velocity or possibly the jacket being thicker or both. velocity is 2850 from our .308. Cant wait to try on deer.

 

[edge]

That sounds like you are using the Berger 308155T , which does indeed have a thicker jacket ( as opposed to the 308155V ). They were designed for target use to prevent bullet disintegration. While Berger does not recommend them for hunting, Sierra doesn't recommend the SMK either, obviously they give you results more in line with what you want.

edge.

 

[pjracer]

edge
you are right. sorry i wasnt as specific in my post. got a couple of friends that use matchking in 257 to 30 cal rifles with excellent success. i am all for making sure that the animal being shot is dead before it hits the dirt as much as possible.

 

[bkstickbow]

Hello gentlemen, I had to register just to post on this subject. I have not tried the Berger but have seen the impressive one shot kills at Best of the West.com I have shot Barnes for the last fifteen years, 300 H&H 200 gr xxx 3/4 " at 200yd, 7mm Rem mag 175 gr xxx 3 shot group at 100 yd a dime covered these holes with no torn paper showing, 7x57 120 gr xxx 3/4" at 100yd, 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser 130 xxx 1/2" at 100yd 9 kills with this gun 8 did not take a step two at 400 yd, 257 Roberts 115 gr xxx 1/2"at 100yd.
I have heard of problems people have with the accuracy, I have never experienced this, I have found it is all in the seating depth. The killing power of the triple shock is incredible.
I read an article on slowing down your bullet, I will share it with you in short. Put a pop can on a fence post and shoot it with a high speed BB gun. What happens, you walk over and the can still sitting on the fence has a hole all the way through it. Now shoot it with a slow or med slow BB gun the can is knocked off the fence, has a hole all the way through it and has a big dent in the side of the can. The 6.5 that I have 8 out of 9 drop dead in the track kills has only a 2625 mv. Shoot heaver bullets for caliber and slow them down, the results will astound you.
Never forget who Christ died for..................YOU!

 

[slymule]

Here's the results of three elk shot this year - I used a 180gr. berger in a 7mmSTW and shot an elk at 120 yds, 2" behind the front leg in the boiler room, she was running and she only went 30yds after being hit. It left the biggest blood trail I've ever witnessed in 40 years of hunting. Entrance hole was the size of a quarter, took out one rib, and the exit was about about the size of a tennis ball taking out two ribs. I was WAY impressed! Friend of mine shot two elk, also at close range, about 75-85yds, with a 338 win mag using 180gr ballistic tips. Both were shot behind the shoulder about the same placement where my elk was shot with the berger. Both of his elk were bloodshot from the middle of the ribcage to the front of both shoulders, wasted ALOT of meat. I would NEVER recommend using this bullet on elk again. Entrance and exit wounds were similar to the berger bullet I used, but on the elk I shot the bloodshot area with the berger bullet only extended about 3" around the entrance and exit hole.

In past years I have also seen huge gaping (cantalope sized) areas of meat blown off of mule deer where the bullet first made contact, basically exploded on the surface and did not penetrate worth a ****. Personally I think the ballistic tips shouldn't be used for anything bigger than a coyote. Both times I've seen this they were both shot with a 7mag at less than 125yds.

 

[bkstickbow]

Congratulation on your Elk, it's nice when the tracking job is limited to where you can see.
Like I said I have not personally used the Berger but have been throughly impressed with the devastating performance on long range shots that I saw on best of the west. I am happy to hear the bullet performs at shorter range also.
With the advent of slower burning powders the industry has told us (the consumer) that we need faster flatter shooting guns what they don't tell you is that if you are not shooting a premium/bonded bullet and your non premium bullet makes impact at a velocity that exceeds 2,200 fps you will loose 40% of you bullet weight upon impact. That means you only have 60% of your bullet weight to get to where it needs to go. One other post had it correct, their are penetrating bullets and expanding bullets. What he left out is a frangible bullet, This is what the VLD and the Ballistic Tip are. The VLD is suppose to penetrate two to three inches and then basically act like a grenade inside the animal, Ballistic Tips do this upon impact if the speed is up or at short ranges, but at distance react somewhat like the VLD that is why they are both considered a long range bullet.
Barnes Triple Shock is a penetrating bullet that needs soft tissue to open, not saying it won't open if it hit a shoulder but would open beyond the shoulder when it reaches the heart lung area. I have read several years ago that the Barnes X would open with as little as 700 ft lbs of energy, I don't think that has changed with the Triple Shock, this would indicate that it is a long range bullet. Most animals that I have shot have been deer and antelope with the exception of one elk I personally do not remember having to shoot anything (that I hit) twice. And the take them off their feet type of kills have always been the longer shots.
I referred to an article I read in my first post about slowing down the bullet, the kills on best of the west.com have been at extremely long range. They shoot a 140gr 6.5 Berger VLD with a mv of 3025 at animals up to and including elk at ranges out to 925 yards. This round takes these animals off their feet where they stand. That bullet is not smokin at that range. My point is slow everything down and let the bullet do the work not the gun. Heavy bullets slow speed equates to less meat damage and devastating performance and that is probably with any bullet premium or not. I have had such success with Barnes that I would be hard pressed to switch. That being said, if a switch were inevitable I would have to give the Berger VLD some serious consideration.
Don't leave it to chance read 1st John 5:13

 

[firstcoueswas80]

Re: +1 for Berger

I have always shot Factory Barnes X 180 gr. out of one of my 300 Wby Mags. They have always been a sub-MOA load right out of the box... for me. the Barnes X is a Great Coues Deer bullet IMO... wasting very little meat even if hit more than once. We have also taken many elk with this same factory load. My concern with the X (or similar bullets) is that in elk, we found that even a solid shoulder shot would exit the other side at the size of a dime or less. And a shot that hit "slightly" off the mark made for a real grid search to recover the animal.... no blood, no sign.... I am still a fan of this bullet for Coues because of the clean and solid knock down.

However, I switched to the VLD 168 gr. last year in my LR rifle and we ground checked 2 bulls with it. Both one shot kills (385 & 450 yds.) and neither bullet exited the other side. One bull dropped at the shot the other took about 6 steps.... and both shots were not in the "12 ring" , but rather just off the mark, because two 13 yr.old girls were doing the shooting. Also we had no more wasted meat on these 2 bulls than I have had in the past on Solid shoulder shots with a Barnes X.


BTW.... plan on boning out an elk w/o gutting it if you plan to use the VLD....... They turn the insides into a Protien shake!

I have a new favorite Elk bullet and can not wait to try it on Coues and Speed Goats next!

CnS

The above poster (whats up Gino) heavily pressured me into using the Bergers for my coues hunt out of my .257 wby mag. On the last day, I had a buck I wanted to shoot standing at 571 yards. No worries, I have the VLD in my gun, and have tested ballistics out to that far... Click, Click, Clike... BOOM.. WHOP! Buck walkes 13 yards. Lays down and dies!

Didnt hit him just right, (under guessed the wind by about 3 inches). Upon recovery, the Berger never exited. It devistated the insides of the buck and basically turned him inside out! Worked great!

 

[Shamdalee]

Have no idea where my first response went new to the computer!
Have taken 3 deer with barnes 3x all for the most part 1 shot kills
total penatration . The last 5x5 wht was moving @200yards a dbl lung
shot put him down in under 10 yds. 130 3x @3095fts. .270 win Why.
mark V groups under 1 inch @100yds.
Reason for response?
Hunt in mule ,wht and elk country would like to hunt with one rifle
for all can not get my .308 and .300 win mag to group with barnes.
Have developed a load for my .308 168 Berger VLD @2880fps groups
under 1 inch. Ranges would be under 400yds.
Have taken 2 deer with my Rem.Mtn Lite .280 150gr Barnes@2900fts
This rifle shoots any bullet I put in it .
My .300 win mag. seems to only like 150gr Fed.powershok.
What to do?
Would realy like to use either the .308 or .300 some have said the .270
is to light.

 

[MONTANAHUNTER38]

tHE BERGER BULLETS ARE EXTREMELY ACCURATE AND DEVASTATING ON BIG GAME. I USED THEM OUT OF A 3006 AND THEY LITERALLY PUT AN 18" HOLE IN A MULEY AT 158 YARDS AFTER HE WAS SHOT TWICE WITH A 7MM MAG. tHE DEER WAS HIT WITH A 168GR BERGER VLD MATCH HUNTING BULLET AND HE HIT THE GROUND IMMEDIATELY. I BOUGHT A 300 WSM TO REPLACE THE 7MM MAG AND AM GOING TO CUSTOM LOAD 168 AND 185 GR BERGER VLD MATCH HUNTING BULLETS ACCORDING TO BERGER THEY WILL TAKE DOWN ANY NORTH AMERICAN BIG GAME.

 

[[email protected]]

I used 168 grain Tipped TSX on my hunt in Namibia this year. I loaded them in a 300 RUM at 3300 FPS. I shot a kudu at 450 yards, a Gemsbok at 300 yards, a Blue Wildebeest at 350, and a Mountain Zebra at 230 yards.

All died within 10 yards of initial bullet impact....no follow up shots were needed except on the Zebra...and that was due to less than perfect shot by me. All but the Zebra were complete pass throughs. The exit holes were about the size of a quarter. The only bullet I recovered was on the Zebra and it was a perfect 4 petal mushroom.

I was more than pleased with the bullets' performance...excellent accuracy and instant put down on whatever I shot. Can't beat them.

 

[roaddog1m]

Montanahunter38,

There is a button on the left side of the keyboard that says "caps lock". Hit that button once.

Good hunting!

Tom