Berger 195's failing?

[Wedgy]

Watching this thread. Just picked up a 7 mm Dakota with a 26" 8 twist Benchmark. Guy threw in 225 Berger 195's. Hope they work for me. He's got them shooting good but only at 2700 fps with 7828. I'm going to try them with N570 and R33.

Guys are having some issues with strange pressure spikes using RL33 and many have found N570 to be a better replacement. I believe Ryan Pierce switched his fleet as well.

 

[BJH]

Seems to be a lot of varying thoughts on these bullets. Berger bullets in general seem to have a LOT of varying opinions placed on them. I have used them for around 10 years now and have never seen better performance on game. I have shot vitals as well as high shoulder. After the 'drop in their tacks' performance of the high shoulder shot, that is all i shoot for anymore. That has been with both the VLD hunting line and the Hybrids. I get confused as how a bullet can blow up on hide, and at the same time pencil through an animal. I'm not saying this hasn't happened, it just confuses me.
Maybe Berger should offer the 195 in the Hybrid design? In the original press release they mentioned doing so if it gains enough ground. Maybe this would help out? I don't see anywhere that they changed the bullet construction or jacket from any of the other VLD Hunting bullets that they offer. I wonder why there are so many issues popping up with them? Thanks to all of you sharing your results and thoughts on the subject. This is how we all learn ways to do it better.

 

[Wedgy]

Guys are having some issues with strange pressure spikes using RL33 and many have found N570 to be a better replacement. I believe Ryan Pierce switched his fleet as well.

Ryan's reply on AS site ;

"90% of the problems is from guys not cleaning the barrel well enough. That carbon deposit will increase pressures substantially and ruin accuracy. With reloader 33 I recommend scrubbing every 30 rounds. That will require Rem40X bore cleaner or something similar to remove that stubborn carbon. VV N570 is a better powder. Not near as temp sensitive as 33, way cleaner, same speeds and just as accurate. I just got this 200 yard group from a customer a week or so ago. 3 shots .167"/.081moa at 200 yards with 82.7 gr of 570. Remember my freebore is very long so start lower than my loads you see on all the forums."

 

[machoking]

Has anyone tried the new Enduron 8133 yet? Might not be slow enough as it shows just a step slower than Retumbo.

 

[CaptnC]

Good stuff Rocky!

I'm a little dizzy for all the input of technical info...but it's going away as I soak all that in!

Thank you for taking the time to generate a post like that!

 

[Pdvdh]

My buddy accidentally got a bit forward on this cow elk. He shoots them out of a straight 9 twist at a bit under 3000 fps.

View attachment 92269


It seems to me every lot acts different, or so is my observation.

Tom

Well that photo was worth tuning in for. Thanks for sharing that one. Look's like prairie dog remains. So much for the high shoulder shot.

 

[CaptnC]

My buddy accidentally got a bit forward on this cow elk. He shoots them out of a straight 9 twist at a bit under 3000 fps.

View attachment 92269


It seems to me every lot acts different, or so is my observation.

Tom

Tom,
Any idea on the range of that shot?

 

[tom m.]

Tom,
Any idea on the range of that shot?

Couple hundred yards

 

[longshot406]

Well I guess my next option with the 195's will be to try meplat trimming and tip cleaning. Or aim for shoulder so at least it will die. The cow I shot twice behind the shoulders had impact velocity over 2500fps, 2700ft lbs, and sg over 1.6 and see still ran to the next county! My original lot I purchased going on two years ago I recently returned to Berger. I just reordered a couple boxes so I would still have some and thought a new lot might work better, but guess what ...... I got the same lot again! Oh well... at least I won't half to retune my load.

 

[TwoMore]

I shot this buck at 320 yards you can see the entrance, the bullet was recovered on the off side under the skin , now it gapped his spine pretty good but doesnt look anything like that elk. it did perfect. like I said earlier only 2 kills with the 195 so we will see in the future , right now I am pleased. I dont think I took pic while skinning him, I will go thru my phone pics. At 320 that bullet is still running just under 2800 fps. my lot number is 8954

 

[SO92]

Guys are having some issues with strange pressure spikes using RL33 and many have found N570 to be a better replacement. I believe Ryan Pierce switched his fleet as well.

This is real, i had similar issues and cleaning after 35-40 rounds fixes it. Ill be switching over after i finish my last jug of 33.

 

[longshot406]

Here are some photos a friend sent of his cow elk he had to shot 3 times to put down. Under 500 yards, 300wm 215 hybrid, 2950fps muzzle. The "pin hole" disease seems to be spreading!

 

[TwoMore]

wow , I have had 0 issues but you got me thinkin about checking meplats. are these mag fed rifles and maybe the tips are taking a beating? I have been single feeding for about 7 or 8 years now. maybe running a round up the ramp into the chamber beats it up?

 

[Pdvdh]

View attachment 92415 View attachment 92416 View attachment 92417 Here are some photos a friend sent of his cow elk he had to shot 3 times to put down. Under 500 yards, 300wm 215 hybrid, 2950fps muzzle. The "pin hole" disease seems to be spreading!

Been there seen that before. I don't know that it's any more contagious or worse than before. It's always been. Probably reported here more willingly now is the primary difference.
It's not the most common performance, but it continues to occur too often for my druthers.

If you meplat uniform and then counterbore the meplats with the Kevin Cram tool, I think the non-expansion problem, the most noxious of the two forms of undesirable performance, can be largely resolved.

Then you're left with the second most annoying mode of undesirable Prairie Dog Town performance - photographed and displayed in Tom m.'s Post #61. Meat shredder...