Benefit of a Electronic Powder Dispenser?

[Robby20]

Are you guys using the Chargemaster Lite or Supreme?

 

[misterc01]

I use a Lyman DPS II. After warmup and turning off the fan. I set it for the weight I want. I measure and then check it on a BB scale (RCBS 5-0-5). I do that usually about three times and normally they match up. Then check the weight every tenth round. It works well for me. Small number of rounds, I just use the BB Scale.

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Is there a benefit to an electronic powder dispenser like the RCBS Chargemaster? I'm considering one to simplify a step but I don't want to sacrifice results.

I used to be 100% team chargemaster, until I noticed a known good load out of known good rifle opening up on me without changing any variables… so I ran my next batch of reloads across a beam scale and noticed a few things:

1) the scale says is measures to within +/- 0.1grs which is misleading because the display only resolves to 0.1 (you'd need it to resolve to two decimal places for it to actually achieve the stated accuracy), this means that you can actually have an almost .1 spread between your heaviest and lightest drops (0.149999 and 0.050001 will both register as 0.1 on a scale that only resolves to 1 decimal place), that's a potential error of almost 30% if you use .3gr steps when working up charge weight and this absolutely shows up on ES of the final load. On top of that, in my testing I was actually seeing variances closer to .2grs on some drops even when the digital readout showed my set charge weight, the scale just isn't sensitive or fast enough to register these variances. You can verify this by picking up the pan, waiting a second and then setting it back down on the scale and >50% of the time I would get a reading higher or lower than what was originally displayed even after letting it settle for a few seconds after the charge was completed

2) my testing also revealed that the calibration wanders by up to half a grain sometimes in as little as 15-20rds

Both of these factors led to me using the chargemaster, as others have noted already, as the first drop 0.1-0.2grs short of my target weight and then weigh/trickle up to target on the beam, this takes additional time which brings me to the third issue I had with my chargemaster

3) even when I messed with the settings and did things like the straw mod, the Chargemaster was only barely faster than a mechanical drop + trickle setup when used as a standalone (no second weigh/trickle on a beam scale) That's why most guys run two if they are loading any amount of volume. So to have any sort of efficiency you are in it almost $850 (based on the current price on MidwayUSA).

After a year of fiddling with it, I just broke down and bought an FX120i and a V4 Autotrickler… never looking back. Im in that setup just shy of $1200 (only $350 more than a dual chargemast setup), its certainly faster than one chargemaster and probably not much slower than running two, and WAY more importantly, its a whole order of magnitude more accurate (0.05gr vs 0.1gr).

Now, I know most of you will ask why I didn't just send my Chargemaster off for warranty repair? Well my time is worth a lot of money and to add to that, once a piece of gear lets me down I won't trust it again, even if it is "fixed". those handloads that started opening up on me could have cost the shot of a lifetime, I don't care if RCBS would try and fix my chargemaster… I'd always be wondering "when is it going to fail again?" In the back of my mind, so I'm still stuck adding the extra step which defeats the purpose of an automated system, and it's not like they are even that cheap to begin with.

Food for thought, I won't spend your money for you.

 

[Greyfox]

I've been running my RCBS Chargemaster for about 20 years. Benefits: speed, precision, and confidence). I turn it on about 15 minutes before use, weigh the same 69gr SMK bullet to check weight, and go. Haven't performed the calibration routine in about 10 years. I used to confirm the weight with a subsequent weighing of my charge with a balance beam scale but found that the charge was within +/- .05grns….always! I will do this in and occasional basis just to confirm the consistency. I use a short length plastic straw placed in the feed tube which keeps over-throws to a rare occurrence(1:50 charges). If an over-charge occurs, I'll remove a couple of granules with a small brass spatula and that puts me on weight.
Great product(fingers crossed)….Hope it outlives me!

 

[VenatusDominus]

I recently bought a RCBS Chargemaster link on sale for $249. I love it. I have it thow the charge 0.1 grains under what I want and then add one kernel at a time until I reach the desired weight. I used a beam scale to verify the first 50 or so, but with this method I get a charge that is spot on every time, never more that half a grain off (and I do not cut grains to get to the hundredth). I typically have to add between 1 and 4 grains. This only takes 2-3 seconds and is faster than checking with my beam scale.

 

[jrock]

I agree, the Chargemaster needs some mods. Straw tube is a must and I even optimized the programing for my typical charge weights. It might go over once in a 50 and drops faster. Still, after I got it, I compared its values to my beam scale and there was some variation. I shot a group of electronic scaled and beam scaled and at the time, I didn't see enough variance for me to worry about. I've created some great loads with the Chargemaster despite it not being the best.
If I were to do it over again, I think I would go with a drop, FX and electric trickler for precision reloads.

 

[Tex_Hunter]

After going back and reading some of the responses in here, I feel like its worth pointing out/repeating that to actually have one tenth of a grain accuracy (+/-0.1gr) you need a scale that resolves to the hundredths (0.01gr). All this discussion of weighing individual kernels to get "precise" measurements is completely wasted effort if your scale cant actually measure it, you are still going to have almost .1gr of error no matter how much you've convinced yourself otherwise.

 

[LRNut]

I used to be 100% team chargemaster, until I noticed a known good load out of known good rifle opening up on me without changing any variables… so I ran my next batch of reloads across a beam scale and noticed a few things:

1) the scale says is measures to within +/- 0.1grs which is misleading because the display only resolves to 0.1 (you'd need it to resolve to two decimal places for it to actually achieve the stated accuracy), this means that you can actually have an almost .1 spread between your heaviest and lightest drops (0.149999 and 0.050001 will both register as 0.1 on a scale that only resolves to 1 decimal place), that's a potential error of almost 30% if you use .3gr steps when working up charge weight and this absolutely shows up on ES of the final load. On top of that, in my testing I was actually seeing variances closer to .2grs on some drops even when the digital readout showed my set charge weight, the scale just isn't sensitive or fast enough to register these variances. You can verify this by picking up the pan, waiting a second and then setting it back down on the scale and >50% of the time I would get a reading higher or lower than what was originally displayed even after letting it settle for a few seconds after the charge was completed

2) my testing also revealed that the calibration wanders by up to half a grain sometimes in as little as 15-20rds

Both of these factors led to me using the chargemaster, as others have noted already, as the first drop 0.1-0.2grs short of my target weight and then weigh/trickle up to target on the beam, this takes additional time which brings me to the third issue I had with my chargemaster

3) even when I messed with the settings and did things like the straw mod, the Chargemaster was only barely faster than a mechanical drop + trickle setup when used as a standalone (no second weigh/trickle on a beam scale) That's why most guys run two if they are loading any amount of volume. So to have any sort of efficiency you are in it almost $850 (based on the current price on MidwayUSA).

After a year of fiddling with it, I just broke down and bought an FX120i and a V4 Autotrickler… never looking back. Im in that setup just shy of $1200 (only $350 more than a dual chargemast setup), its certainly faster than one chargemaster and probably not much slower than running two, and WAY more importantly, its a whole order of magnitude more accurate (0.05gr vs 0.1gr).

Now, I know most of you will ask why I didn't just send my Chargemaster off for warranty repair? Well my time is worth a lot of money and to add to that, once a piece of gear lets me down I won't trust it again, even if it is "fixed". those handloads that started opening up on me could have cost the shot of a lifetime, I don't care if RCBS would try and fix my chargemaster… I'd always be wondering "when is it going to fail again?" In the back of my mind, so I'm still stuck adding the extra step which defeats the purpose of an automated system, and it's not like they are even that cheap to begin with.

Food for thought, I won't spend your money for you.

Your comments are spot on.

I had an old Chargemaster; the problem I noted was the RCBS scale takes forever to "settle out" - so it would trickle in a kernel or three and suddenly it is over the target.

I have moved to A&Ds as well; you drop a kernel of 8208 and it instantly registers. Try that with an RCBS or any other scale using that technology. A&Ds also stay calibrated; my RCBS scales always drifted - Hornady was even worse.

 

[misterc01]

If I want to got that far, I break my Ohaus 1010 and start measuring the dispensed charge.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Are you guys using the Chargemaster Lite or Supreme?

I use the Lite. I have an Ohaus 1010 to confirm (double check) every tenth load, and as a back up (now sold as an RCBS 1010).

 

[jrock]

Oh, I feel its also worth adding that if you get a scale to that degree of accuracy, you might find yourself cutting kernels.

 

[RckyMtnRutt]

After going back and reading some of the responses in here, I feel like its worth pointing out/repeating that to actually have one tenth of a grain accuracy (+/-0.1gr) you need a scale that resolves to the hundredths (0.01gr). All this discussion of weighing individual kernels to get "precise" measurements is completely wasted effort if your scale cant actually measure it, you are still going to have almost .1gr of error no matter how much you've convinced yourself otherwise.

This comment is spot on for this thread!!

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Oh, I feel its also worth adding that if you get a scale to that degree of accuracy, you might find yourself cutting kernels.

Ehh... Im not looking for benchrest accuracy here, 0.1gr is more than acceptable assuming you find a nice flat OCW node... the issue is that most mass market consumer scales like RCBS, Lyman, Hornady etc arent actually capable of that level of accuracy to start with, and at least in my experience, cant be trusted to hold any level of reasonable consistency.

If I couldn't afford my current setup, I'd have a mechanical drop and an RCBS 1010 and be perfectly happy. The money I paid is for my time.

 

[Greyfox]

My logic on charge weight accuracy/precision is tied to Hodgdon stick powders I use.. My precision rifles all fall in the range of 5-7 ft/sec velocity change per .1grs of powder(at total charge weight)….this amounts to about 1-3 powder kernels/.1grns. depending on the Hodgdon powder type and cut length. Given this, I have no problem maintaining SD5 or an ES<10FPS with my precision rifles using my Chargemaster at +/- .05grs. With the possible exception of the most extreme Benchrest requirements, further refinement would yield diminishing returns in terms of ballistic performance for my LRH and precision shooting requirements. IMO.