belted magnums good bad or just ugly?

[memtb]

Haven't read all the comments but my #1 gripe with belted magnums is case life, or lack thereof.

I'm not sure what you expect for case life. I load "pretty warm" and generally get 10+ reloads, before discarding. I thought that was pretty good. What should I expect? memtb

Sorry.....didn't get through all of the posts. Though, if I went through your case regiment, maybe I could get more. My last discards, were never annealed, and trimmed only once.....and probably cleaned only twice! Maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket! memtb

 

[J E Custom]

No one in their right mind goes hunting dangerous game with a dirty rifle... not saying it doesn't happen but there are all kinds out there, not all of which are in their right mind! Nor, I think, would someone head out after something that could bite back with a tight chambered rifle... but again, you never know for certain! Personally, I think it's natures way of getting rid of the stupid ones! You can educate ignorant but you just can't fix stupid. (No, JE, I am certainly not calling you stupid, I find it difficult to believe someone with your experience could fall for any of the traps you mentioned, especially since you already know about them).

I do chamber check all of my PD and hunting ammo (especially the factory stuff!), to make sure it will both chamber and eject properly. Not so much practice ammo, but it does get a good visual inspection, at the very least. I also tend to use new brass when hunting, so the odds of having problems chambering the next round are virtually nonexistent for me, other than a possible short stroke or something of that nature. I've never hunted anything that could potentially bite back but I've kept my cool in emergencies before so I would hope to do the same if something ever came at me with ill intent, be it human or otherwise. My .338 WM has a belt but it serves no actual purpose and I would feel perfectly comfortable without it.
Cheers,
crkckr

No Worries.

No one should go hunting dangerous game knowing that something could go wrong But unfortunately things happen. Being prepared and eliminating as many things as you can is not only smart but prudent.

I have had things charge me that intended to do me harm and being prepared saved me pain. A SAMMI chamber is not a tight chamber and is designed to except all factory loading's "BUT" that does not prevent something from fouling the chamber and hindering or preventing a round from cambering. With most game, a problem like this is just a missed opportunity. But with dangerous game it can be life altering.

Some/most of the cartridges of that time (When belted cases were designed) used Cordite powder and it had a reputation second only to black powder for fouling. Many times un-burnt powder falls in the chamber during ejection and can cause this. As stated, belts solve this 90 % of the time. With all of the new powders, this problem is not as bad but it stills exist.

In many cases, you only make a mistake one time and if you are lucky you get another chance. Chamber fouling can happen to anyone many different ways. Having new brass or checked brass for fit has nothing to do with the reason belts were designed. They were designed to chamber under the worst conditions and save lives
(Which they have). I would rather be called stupid and be alive than called brave/not prepared and be dead.

The point is, They have their place and are neither ugly or worthless. And if someone is not having good case life, they are not loading correctly or if they are consistently having problems with case head separation they don't understand the purpose of the belt and need not to have or load for one.

J E CUSTOM

 

[SilverbulletMAG]

What type of failures/issues do you see in belted cases?

Case head blowout above the belt where it gets stretched too thin.

 

[SilverbulletMAG]

I'm not sure what you expect for case life. I load "pretty warm" and generally get 10+ reloads, before discarding. I thought that was pretty good. What should I expect? memtb

Sorry.....didn't get through all of the posts. Though, if I went through your case regiment, maybe I could get more. My last discards, were never annealed, and trimmed only once.....and probably cleaned only twice! Maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket! memtb

I would be very happy with 10+ as well! You may be on to something though....your regimen painless.lol
Not trying to start a hot debate though...there are a million factors that go into these things and the brass is obviously a big one. I primarily use Winchester and Hornady brass in my belted magnums. Not bad but also not the highest of quality and fairly thin to begin with. Generally though, just wish I could get close to the life of the non-belted in my belted mags.
Best of luck on that loto ticket!

 

[eschafer]

Around here it boils down to; Creedmores don't have belts there for belts are bad.

Bingo..... I rarely comment/post, but this here, above, is a big Bingo...

 

[memtb]

SilverbulletMAG, Yes, My brass regiment is "relatively painless".....primarily because I'm lazy and have way too many "irons in the fire"! As I don't shoot as much as I'd like, somewhat short brass life isn't a major issue! I'm using Winchester brass for my AI. Bought 500 pieces, back in the '90's. No more than I shoot now.....someone will inherit some new, unfired brass!

Do you have any suggestions for Lotto numbers.....I could use a little help and/or luck! memtb

 

[crkckr]

JE, I guess we're going to have to agree fo disagree. The odds of fouling a chamber are pretty low and pretty much anything in the way of external crud (like gumbo mud... personally, I love gumbos, you find all kinds of neat things around them) that gets in there that could foul a non-belted cartridge would be just as likely to foul a belted cartridge as well. They were functional back in the day, with cordite, but with todays powders I just don't see a function. As I've said before, the stock market won't crash & the sky won't fall if people continue to use them (which clearly they do!) but I just don't think they have any practical use today. And this is coming from a guy who still owns one! I *might* feel differently if I were hunting in Africa but I don't think so. Not that I've never changed my mind or anything...
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[fiftybmg]

I would be very happy with 10+ as well! ..

Cases with mild loads can be reloaded many times, cases with max loads are good for a few firings only. The belt is not relevant to that.

The cost of brass is roughly equal to the cost of a bullet. If the new brass costs $1, five uses gets it to cost 0.20 and ten uses 0.10, which is too far below the cost of a premium bullet for it to be important.

 

[Vol1975]

The only problem I've had was older brass that I FL resized (RM) brass in a 7mm. The brass started having case head separation above the shoulder. I'm not sure if it was just the age of the brass or not enough lube or proper lube. Either way I trashed the brass and bought new.
Still not sure why it happened but my opinion is that I tried to resize to much and the lube I was using (one shot) stressed the case and weakened the area.
Either way I had a problem with those cases in those loaded rounds. since then I have not had again in any other gun.

 

[Country Bumpkin]

Please enlighten our members on any good and not so good experiences with belted magnum cases

Well, the belted 7 RM worked last year... but it probably will fall apart this year because it's antiquated technology and the critters are beginning to understand that they don't have to succumb to its forces...

 

[J E Custom]

JE, I guess we're going to have to agree fo disagree. The odds of fouling a chamber are pretty low and pretty much anything in the way of external crud (like gumbo mud... personally, I love gumbos, you find all kinds of neat things around them) that gets in there that could foul a non-belted cartridge would be just as likely to foul a belted cartridge as well. They were functional back in the day, with cordite, but with todays powders I just don't see a function. As I've said before, the stock market won't crash & the sky won't fall if people continue to use them (which clearly they do!) but I just don't think they have any practical use today. And this is coming from a guy who still owns one! I *might* feel differently if I were hunting in Africa but I don't think so. Not that I've never changed my mind or anything...
Cheers,
crkckr

Again, No worries.
It is normal on this site to disagree and I think very healthy. Everyone has had different experiences so their preferences will be different. I do remember a friend that stuck a case in a 416 Rigby and ask me to remove it. I was surprised to find a piece of cotton thread from a patch that was left by the last dry patch embedded in the brass hard enough to stick the case to the chamber. It was not that easy to remove ether. So almost anything can stick a case under the right circumstance.

Would the belted cartridge prevented this? I don't know and don't want to find out at the worst time.

J E CUSTOM

 

[crkckr]

I wasn't sure so I had to look it up, since I have exactly 5 rounds down range with a .416. Not a bad group, either. A guy at the bench rest club let shoot his, way back in another life time... but, to the point, the 416 *is* a belted round, so we agree, stuff happens! Murphy's law is always in effect!
Cheers,
crkckr