Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

[ulgrant]

Today I have had to throw away(in the bucket for recycling), 150 pieces of RWS Brass. It had all buldged at the area right above the belt to .512-.514, new brass is .507.(Using the blade or knife portion of my calipers right under the belt.) I had been having trouble with a sticky bolt, but not heavy from the bottom but almost stuck at the very end of the bolt lift. My brass had only been fired 3 times. I believe this was caused because of a couple things.


If you have this problem, go to neck sizing only, it will reduce the case swell from full length resizing. I use a Hornady neck size die I lucked into new in box at the local gun store, that someone traded in with all their reloading stuff.

Or, have a belted magnum body die made at a local machine shop.

if you want to resize the area just above the belt on a belted magnum case, go to your local machine shop, and have a small piece of bar stock machined with a hole in the middle that matches the body size of the cartridge you are firing- most shops will tool this up for you in about 30 minutes or less.

all you have to do is, lube the case, and slip this die over the case, and tap it down lightly with a small mallet or hammer until it contacts the belt, then tap the case out again an arbor pin

presto, the area above the belt is now resized.

no need to spend big money on custom die sets to do this. And certainly don't throw the brass away. The only time I toss brass, is when it splits, or is visibly dangerously thin in some area near the case head.

#2, if you own a belted magnum, buy a Hornady neck size die, and only neck size the brass, then there will be no need to ever resize the area above the belt, or very seldom, because it will be fire formed to the chamber. If it goes in, it should come out, and go back in again without resizing.

the problem starts when these belted cases are repeatedly full length resized, that is un-necessary if the reloaded rounds will be fired in the same gun repeatedly

the area that may become problematic, is the shoulder radius on Weatherby magnum cases, it may work harden and not push down enough to resize, if it has been repeatedly full length resized

 

[Trickymissfit]

Today I have had to throw away(in the bucket for recycling), 150 pieces of RWS Brass. It had all buldged at the area right above the belt to .512-.514, new brass is .507.(Using the blade or knife portion of my calipers right under the belt.) I had been having trouble with a sticky bolt, but not heavy from the bottom but almost stuck at the very end of the bolt lift. My brass had only been fired 3 times. I believe this was caused because of a couple things.
1. My load is on the warm side 77.7 retumbo 210/208 burger/Amax both shot great. CCI Mag Primer. Neither bullet actually touching the lands. The primers are pretty flat but I didnt have loose pockets and there was no ejector mark.
2. I have been pushing my shoulder back way to far. According to my new(and bad ***) headspace guage that I got from Innovative Technologies, I have been pushing the shoulder back .0075. This was happening because I was trying to get my redding body die as low as possible to get as close to the belt as possible. I also bought a special collet die for belted magnums from Innovative Technologies, but the max that can be saved is .511 and all my brass was past that point.

So I need to buy new brass and start over so I wanted to see what you guys with belted magnums are doing about this issue. What brass seems to hold up the best for you? I thought RWS because of the thickness would have been the toughfest and maybe it is but I was over working it.(I was shocked to learn the first time you shoot virgin brass it as .020 clearance at the shoulder)I know Lapua isnt doing 300WM any more...
I know a few of you guys have suggested h1000 but this gun is shooting .3 moa groups consistantly and I really hate to start from scratch again...

dig that brass out of the trash can right away!! You need the sizing die from Inovative Tech.
gary

 

[ulgrant]

dig that brass out of the trash can right away!! You need the sizing die from Inovative Tech.
gary

or just buy a used die set w/punch pin, that they've been making for about 100 years, and costs about 10 bucks...

"Inovative" ??

oh, you mean "Innovative"

if innovative means copying an idea that's been around since the about 1860 when cartridges were invented, I guess that would be innovative

i.e. copying and patenting something already invented ?

who "innovated" it first, Lyman, or ??

Don't get suckered in by these new "patented" die sets, they are just re-inventing the wheel and peddling wares to reloaders who are unaware, that stuff has been around for belted cartridges since the 300 H&H was invented in the 1920's

what causes a belted magnum shell not to chamber, is the shoulder becomes work hardened and can't be bumped back enough, and the shell starts to headspace on the shoulder, and the bolt can't be closed, the shoulder it too high up on the cartridge, just like a 30-06 or any other that headspaces on the shoulder.

the fix for that is, anneal the case necks with a plumbers torch in a shallow pan of water, then knock them over into the water to quench them

and/or- bump the shoulder back with a piece of cast iron plumbers pipe. I routinely get 300 Weatherby mag brass to chamber again, by bumping the shoulder back with a piece of 3/8" pipe on an air fitting from my shop air system, that was laying around in my tool box.

should I patent this piece of pipe with the air fitting on it now, and charge $150 for it ?

too funny...

 

[ulgrant]

bump 30 cal belted necks back

I've had a few 300 Wby mag shells that repeatedly would NOT resize with a full length die, the shoulder was too high, this fixes it every time

this, and a hammer on a wooden surface, vertically set up, hit the air fitting, and it bumps the shoulder back enough to then chamber next time

it's not the area above the belt, I've seen those still chamber being at .514" and more dimensional width

it's the shoulder being too high, it gets work hardened and then no press on earth can size it back down

a hammer and pipe will

of course it should be annealed first, but if you don't hve the time, the pipe will still work- cast iron is harder than brass, it doesn't have to be a high-dollar break the bank hardened steel die to resize brass

 

[ulgrant]

flip it around to bump the base of the shoulder, the air chuck fits it perfectly

 

[Joe King]

flip it around to bump the base of the shoulder, the air chuck fits it perfectly

Take it how you will but that ^ reminds me of this
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I1i8Toj8E]How to Reload a 38 spl. and kill a beer - YouTube[/ame]

 

[coues7]

great info

 

[Trickymissfit]

I'll stand with my post, because it works everytime
gary

 

[Joe King]

dig that brass out of the trash can right away!! You need the sizing die from Inovative Tech.
gary

Or in the very least when you eventually get it rebarreled you can get a tight chamber and your body die will take it down no problem. Seems to me your brass isn't bad so much as your dies just don't have that "match" to your chamber.

 

[Tumbleweed]

flip it around to bump the base of the shoulder, the air chuck fits it perfectly

Glad it works for you but it looks like a great way to cause extreme runout issues. Have you ever measured runout before and then after this procedure?

 

[RTK]

In the past I have only neck sized until I start getting a little resistance on closing the bolt, then I bump the shoulder back a couple thou. Usually after 3-4 firings. This year, on recommendation from others, I will FL sizing after each firing but NOT bump back the shoulder any further than before so I still headspace off of the shoulder. Supposedly accuracy increases, we will see.

 

[gspman]

I have 10x reloads on about 50 pieces of rp brass for my 300wm and 8x reload on another 20 pieces of ww brass. I bought larry willis's collet die as soon as bought my other dies just because i agreed entirely with the concept.
I headspace off the shoulder .0002 then use larry's collet die whether i need it or not....don't even check anymore, some case's benefit, some don't...not a big deal.
every single one chambers and ejects with zero and i mean zero problems in approx 620 rounds.
I just wish i had a better way of checking the interior waist of the case other than a straightened paper clip.

So Far so good

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Now my head is spinning...ok here is my only issue with what you said...all of my brass(80% of it at least) was fully prepped and ready for loading.(so right now there is .0075 headspace. The brass will go in the rifle but i have a tough time getting it out.
I do believe that this headspace guide will allow me to set the shoulder back .002 or less in the future. What type of load do you recomend? I have some re 25 that was way to unstable for me so I can use that. I also have some 200 g accubonds that it didnt like...

So my measurements .512-.514 was after the body die...

If you don't like your rl25 send it to me and I'll burn it in my 30rum or 7stw. I just got a couple of pounds of it for them the other day.
For a 300 win I'll use rl22, h1000, or 7828 and that's it.