jcpython357
Well-Known Member
I'm seeing alot of you guys bedding the HS Pecision stocks. I've heard Monte's reason, What is the reason that some of you other guys are doing it? And does anyone know what the torque specs. are for an HS stock?Jay
Bedding something with a bedding block?
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Jay-
I've been beding them for years because of one reason--THEY DON'T FIT THE ACTION.
Its just that simple. When you remove the action on a non-bedded HS stock, you will see two thin transfer lines of aluminum along the bottom of the action. These lines are the only place the action is touching the stock. Right thre, you can plainly see where you will NOT have a stress free bed for you action, once the action screws are torqued to 65 inch pounds.
I have all but given up on HS Stocks because of poor quality control(voids, chips, cracks, brittleness)in favor of Holland Laminated and McMillan Fiberglass, but I have one I'm putting together from spare parts and decided to use the HS(its all I had on hand), but you can bet your a** that I will bed the thing before a shot is fired....Thanks for asking--Rant Mode OFF
[ 03-28-2003: Message edited by: Chris Jamison ]
I've been beding them for years because of one reason--THEY DON'T FIT THE ACTION.
Its just that simple. When you remove the action on a non-bedded HS stock, you will see two thin transfer lines of aluminum along the bottom of the action. These lines are the only place the action is touching the stock. Right thre, you can plainly see where you will NOT have a stress free bed for you action, once the action screws are torqued to 65 inch pounds.
I have all but given up on HS Stocks because of poor quality control(voids, chips, cracks, brittleness)in favor of Holland Laminated and McMillan Fiberglass, but I have one I'm putting together from spare parts and decided to use the HS(its all I had on hand), but you can bet your a** that I will bed the thing before a shot is fired....Thanks for asking--Rant Mode OFF
[ 03-28-2003: Message edited by: Chris Jamison ]
jcpython357
Well-Known Member
CJ, My 4 HS stocks all have them lines, like two pencil marks, and back by the tang the line is shaped like the tang, how much more contact do you need? I think thats how HS planned how the reciever is supposed to fit in their stocks, did you ever contact them and have them explain why they do it that way, you must be from that 'old school' where the reciever MUST make a 'prefect mirror' image of the stock, not so, you should see my 6mm shoot with no bedding,>1/4" at times and consistantly >3/8", and my sons 22-250 shoots **** good also, can't wait to try out my 223VS and my 708 s/s with an HS sporter stock I got on clearance from Midway. CJ, you should have sent them stocks back that have chips, voids etc.Brad will be glad to work with you,I had a problem with a thumbhole stock that canted the rifle to the right with a bipod attached and I didn't feel like I should have to correct it with my bipod, so I told him to make me an M24 stock instead (sand color), I like that stock better than my thunbhole, I think. To summarize, so far my rifles shoot like gangbusters with no bedding, and in another month I'll get to shoot my 223&708, I'll let you know how they do,Oh my God, there's no bedding in there, how can they possibly shoot?
Jay
Ian M
Well-Known Member
Chris,
I agree that the HS stocks should be skim-bedded and was told that the U.S. Army found that out also. Was also told by HS that the real problem is the fact that Rem. 700 receivers are NOT straight round tubes as we would hope they are. Therefore they cannot fit into the V-shaped aluminum bedding block like they should. I have an HS stock with a 700 action in it that is skim-bedded and it shoots very well. Also have an HS rifle that has no bedding and it is a solid sub 1/2 moa rifle for the 5000 rounds thru it so far. They say that their action is true, no need to skim-bed.
No doubt a lot of Remington actions do fit properly into the HS stock, just like a lot of them don't fit well. That is the reality of all the variables involved in making recievers. I believe that HS's CNC machines should be able to make very identical aluminum bedding blocks, that should be an easier task than creating exactly true round receivers. Understand that there are a lot of stresses imposed when the various cut-outs are done to the receiver, plus the buffing and polishing stages can even effect the final dimensions a bit.
HS stocks are made by a completely different process than McMillans - you pay your money and get what you think is the best.
I agree that the HS stocks should be skim-bedded and was told that the U.S. Army found that out also. Was also told by HS that the real problem is the fact that Rem. 700 receivers are NOT straight round tubes as we would hope they are. Therefore they cannot fit into the V-shaped aluminum bedding block like they should. I have an HS stock with a 700 action in it that is skim-bedded and it shoots very well. Also have an HS rifle that has no bedding and it is a solid sub 1/2 moa rifle for the 5000 rounds thru it so far. They say that their action is true, no need to skim-bed.
No doubt a lot of Remington actions do fit properly into the HS stock, just like a lot of them don't fit well. That is the reality of all the variables involved in making recievers. I believe that HS's CNC machines should be able to make very identical aluminum bedding blocks, that should be an easier task than creating exactly true round receivers. Understand that there are a lot of stresses imposed when the various cut-outs are done to the receiver, plus the buffing and polishing stages can even effect the final dimensions a bit.
HS stocks are made by a completely different process than McMillans - you pay your money and get what you think is the best.
Have you guys considered that the reason you can see those marks is because there is movement between the stock and the action?
Those are friction marks caused by the action rubbing on the aluminum.
I don't think a bedded action is going to leave marks anywhere ....
Just a thought.
Doug
Those are friction marks caused by the action rubbing on the aluminum.
I don't think a bedded action is going to leave marks anywhere ....
Just a thought.
Doug
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
chris matthews
Well-Known Member
Everybody is pretty well correct on this one. If the rifle shoots without bedding great! If it don't skim bedding it won't hurt a thing, at the very least I would bed the lug.
With that said, V-blocks are kinda glorified pillars. And they are often crooked in the stock.
As far as torque, I stick with 65 in/lbs. I think S1 said it but I'll say it again front then back screw and make sure holes are bigger than the screw so the gun recoils on the lug not the screws.
With that said, V-blocks are kinda glorified pillars. And they are often crooked in the stock.
As far as torque, I stick with 65 in/lbs. I think S1 said it but I'll say it again front then back screw and make sure holes are bigger than the screw so the gun recoils on the lug not the screws.
jcpython357
Well-Known Member
S1, You stated the two lines on your reciever and on the aluminum block are from the recoil lug flexing when the rifle is fired, the stock(HS) that I got from Midway for my 708 has the lines in them and I haven't fired the rifle in that stock yet(noticed them when taking stock off and on for fine tuning the trigger, unless I'm misunderstanding you, the lines that we all see, back by the tang also, are the contact lines(patches) that are supposed to be there in the first place, like I was telling Doug in a e-mail earlier, lets say you have a V block, drill a hole through it and put a steel bar on top of it with a drilled and tapped hole, now torque them together to 65inlbs, when you pull them off it's going to leave a mark on both sides of the metals, not from recoil. And my box stock(barreled action) 700 6mmRem. has shot under 1/4" at times with the screws(both)torqued to 65inlbs, shooting 'nonmatch' 75gr Sierras. Someone that has done an unbiased before and after test (not bedded vs. bedded) should reply to this thread, as long as they torqued the guard screws 'per HS specs'65inlbs, on the nonbedded stock, then we all can see if "bedding" the HS stock really helps or not, as for my rifles I'd say not.
Jay
FatBoy...
Well-Known Member
Jay,
I had 500 rounds through my Win Stealth before I sent it to GA Precision for a bed with Marine Tex. After an additional 1000+ rounds, I find the accuracy to be on par or slightly better than it was before BUT,, when I shoot the long strings at 1000 (26 to 30 rounds) the POI no longer shifts.
When the barrel gets hot (and it do get hot mang) the rifle is still POA/POI where as before there was a small shift after heat up.
Also,, the rear action screw used to loosen after about 40 rounds. Now it stays put at 65in lbs.
It was fully free floated and has been torqued for every round ever fired through it.
YMMV....
FatBoy...
I had 500 rounds through my Win Stealth before I sent it to GA Precision for a bed with Marine Tex. After an additional 1000+ rounds, I find the accuracy to be on par or slightly better than it was before BUT,, when I shoot the long strings at 1000 (26 to 30 rounds) the POI no longer shifts.
When the barrel gets hot (and it do get hot mang) the rifle is still POA/POI where as before there was a small shift after heat up.
Also,, the rear action screw used to loosen after about 40 rounds. Now it stays put at 65in lbs.
It was fully free floated and has been torqued for every round ever fired through it.
YMMV....
FatBoy...
jcpython357
Well-Known Member
Fatboy, What kind of accuracy are you getting with that stealth, 308 I pressume. Thinking of gatting one, whats your secret load?
Jay
Do you guys put Locktite on the action screws? I have been using blue Locktite on mine and they haven't come loose yet.
The come apart fine when I want to remove the action.
Just wondering if I am the only one that Locktites teh action screws ...
(And scope mount screws ...)
Doug
The come apart fine when I want to remove the action.
Just wondering if I am the only one that Locktites teh action screws ...
(And scope mount screws ...)
Doug
FatBoy...
Well-Known Member
Jay,
I load to track the turret on a M3 scope, so my load isn't the most accurate out there. I average about .6" at 100 for a 5 shot group. I've had some go into the .3" and some go over 1",, but most sit just below 3/4 at 100. I've seen these ifles shoot much better.
My 100 yard load is Win case/WLR/44.2Varget/175SMK to 2.827"
my 1K load is Lapua case/210M/45Varget/175SMK to 2.827"
my scope load is the same as above but with 44.4gr Varget. Follows the markings on the M3LR like it's a rails.
dmw,
I never use locite (even blue) on action screws. Only part of my rifle that sees loctite is the scope base screws.
FatBoy...
I load to track the turret on a M3 scope, so my load isn't the most accurate out there. I average about .6" at 100 for a 5 shot group. I've had some go into the .3" and some go over 1",, but most sit just below 3/4 at 100. I've seen these ifles shoot much better.
My 100 yard load is Win case/WLR/44.2Varget/175SMK to 2.827"
my 1K load is Lapua case/210M/45Varget/175SMK to 2.827"
my scope load is the same as above but with 44.4gr Varget. Follows the markings on the M3LR like it's a rails.
dmw,
I never use locite (even blue) on action screws. Only part of my rifle that sees loctite is the scope base screws.
FatBoy...
