Bears, Majic Powder & Caliber Efficiency.

[dogz]

IMO the absolute toughest thing regarding bear protection is preparedness and ego. The vast majority of guys will not practice, and run thru the drills it takes to be ready. To be able to go to instant guns (or spray). Most guys think that they're good to go, they have a pistol, they probably haven't practiced with it. Most of the macho Mitch pistola guys that I know truly have no experience with a handgun. They own one, but they don't practice with it, let alone under durress.

I took a class last year that really cemented this to me. I thought I was in pretty ready to roll. They had a bear target that came down a 21' rail system at you. I don't know how fast it came but it was moving along. I found quickly that a hip holster (I had Blackhawks Serpa which I really like) was generally covered up by coats/vests (typical CCW) etc...too slow! The guys with chest holsters beat the heck out of me speed wise. Period end of game these guys were quick with these. I learned a lot from these Millennials...

The instructor taught me to use the UDAP holster for the bear spray, you can clip it to almost anything. I can go lefty or righty equally well so he had me set the holster to my left side. Before I took this class I would have the spray spray or a handgun and it would be buried somewhere or even attached to my backpack. No way no how could I get to these when I had to!

Once I put it on my fanny pack hip belt I found I could flick the safety cap off and deploy the spray incredibly fast.

I don't care what you carry as long as you learn to get it into action in a second. If a bear comes from close you just won't have time. Recently I watched a video of a tv show host, a bear came at him and the fumbling and muckin around to get into action was unbelievable. Maybe the guy just wasn't on his A game that day...

If 100 guys were attached by bruins I firmly believe the the fellas armed with bear spray instead of a handgun) would time and time again come out of the frays in much better shape...

IMO stopping bear attacks is about turning them away (spray) or stopping them with a CNS shot. It's not a fight of lots of rounds nor it it a fight of brute strength. It's a one or two round fight!

Talk about Ft Lbs....horse hockey! Turn them with spray or turn their lights out via CNS

Just my thoughts

 

[sp6x6]

Ive practiced my whole life and have the mind set, as my son also.Hes Marine,SWAT trained,last qualified only dropped one shot.We both use low swung custom holsters,seen in posts here. Friend of mine that dont shoot much carry spray.Ive seen 13 grizz in one day,have had many run ins over the years.I have never had on yet that didnt warn me with some puffing,or teeth smacking.Came out after long day on hike,saw blonde down trail,thought elk,quick look and saw it was grizz,then saw two cubs.Pistol came out this was 40 yrds,she had not seen me and the wind finally alert her,She reared up and sent cubs off,then she followed.Thats how you hope it plays out.Cats another story,had three friends stalked or jumped.Another buddy had a friend jumped and he shot the cat off his back ,grazed his head with shot.Be ready

 

[Winchester 70]

Energy doesn't kill sorry don't get hung up on it. 338-06 with 210 TTSX would do great, but so would a 30-06.

You are correct. I have a friend that has killed several Grizzlies using his Winchester Model 70 300 Win Mag with a 200 or 220 grain Swift A-Frame bullet. Need that type of bullet to get to the vitals through bone and muscle mass.

 

[Joefrazell]

Id never use my 215 Berger 300 win mag combo on a brown bear but it actually holds 3k ft lbs at 300 yards. I'd use a 214 hammer. I wouldn't feel under guned with my 300 win. at all

 

[Tikkamike]

I'm with @HARPERC.. he really couldn't have stated it any better but I will back this up with some real world experience. Having killed a handful of 6'+ black bears and 2 stretching to 7' I can say that energy isnt what kills a bear. Everything living thing that dies, dies from a lack of oxygen. There is no exception to this rule. You need lungs to oxygenate the blood and a heart and vessels to circulate oxygenated blood to all the vital organs. If you remove any links out of this chain and you have a dead "thing" soft tissue damage kills, big intrance and exit wounds kill (sucking chest wound really takes the wind out of an animals sail.... literally) crushed bone is devastating... bones cause major blood loss, with broken shoulders you typically have sucking chest wounds (collapsed lungs) and with chest wounds you have soft tissue damage. To get there you need a heavy well constructed bullet, (the larger diameter the better) and enough horsepower to push it all the way through.

 

[Buck Fever]

Caliber efficiency is interesting to me. Some times if you neck up a cartridge the result will shoot heavier bullets at nearly the same velocity as the parent and burn a similar amount of powder. This is why I built up a 338 Federal.

I know it won't have the power of a 335 Winchester Magnum but it's an AR so the ability to fire follow up shots rapidly and in high volume is its strength.

To me this sounds like the question of Glock 10mm vs .44 Magnum revolver. Is 20 rounds of 338 Federal fired rapidly (but accurate) better than 5 rounds of 338 Winchester Magnum fired slowly (still accurate)?

I am fairly certain I will never test even one of those options on a bear but could a 200 grain 338 going 2,600-2,700 fps be effective on Brown Bear? If so, to what range?

 

[memtb]

Quote: I am fairly certain I will never test even one of those options on a bear but could a 200 grain 338 going 2,600-2,700 fps be effective on Brown Bear? If so, to what range?

You may be OK with a mono with those weights. However, with most cup and core type bullets, your bullet weight loss would severely hinder penetration.....especially "if" heavy bone where encountered! In a hunting situation, I think that "most" guides prefer their clients shoot inside of 100 yards, so you should have adequate velocities! If, it's a "stopping" situation.....your velocity will be in the 2600-2700 FPS range! memtb

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

As with most highly emotional events no material solution is the singular answer. You have to be "present, focused and prepared to act decisively immediately." This is true in all fights. If you've got that combat mind set then you can consider tools to employ. Myself, I'd stick with my Remington M600M in .350 RM. I stoke that with 55 gr of RL 15 under a 250 gr Nosler Partition, GM215M opens the ceremony. Is that the best choice? For me it's familiar, comfortable and nearly a part of me. I'll stick with it. Good luck with the big bears. I hope you don't need it.

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

The M600M .350 has well accounted for itself over time.

 

[Reemty J]

Oldelkhunter beautiful colored bear, how big?

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

Stretched with all my might, and the help of 6 men and a boy, just under 7'. More importantly to me, he was delicious. Bear roast with blackberry sauce is a favorite.