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Barrels, which manufacturer??
- Thread starter Kmccord
- Start date
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Cut rifled barrels were/are stress relieved like anybody else's. A difference between rifling processes is the stress introduced, and what is done to better the barrel BEFORE and AFTER rifling.
~15yrs ago I shopped for a barrel and asked many button barrel makers how they address contouring in their process. Most were unaware that either contouring needs to be done before button rifling, or total stress relieving between rifling and contouring, else the bore opens at the muzzle. Then you get into what lapping does on top of it. None actually measured bore dimension, and none would guarantee anything real about their barrels, not even the correct twist rate.
At that time I decided that button barrel makers were doing no more than divvying up the cheaper barrel market.
There are better button barrel makers today, some mentioned. If I were you considering any today, I would investigate details of their process as I did, no matter what our mob claims about them..
Another barrel maker not mentioned is Loather Walther. Sadly famous for hammer forging, and god awful hard steel, yet more capable than any and all other barrel makers in existence. In fact, if it can be done with barrels, LW can do it. Any rifling, any lapping, any steel, any process, and actually capable of measuring and manufacturing to prescribed bore dimensions. This is not the same as merely air gauging to validate tolerances.
Hammer forging in itself can also have it's advantages, in that a heavily contoured hammer tightens at the muzzle with heat(opposite of buttoned). Tightest at the muzzle is essential for accuracy, and nobody knows this better than LW, who offers a separate accurizing service to ensure it.
I've never ordered a LW, but will some day.
I always consider stress, a contouring plan, lapping needs, and intended field use.
And every finished barrel of mine from now on will be melonite treated, as barrel life is just too important to dismiss.
With this, I guess I'll never end up with a Proof Research barrel.. They will not allow it.
~15yrs ago I shopped for a barrel and asked many button barrel makers how they address contouring in their process. Most were unaware that either contouring needs to be done before button rifling, or total stress relieving between rifling and contouring, else the bore opens at the muzzle. Then you get into what lapping does on top of it. None actually measured bore dimension, and none would guarantee anything real about their barrels, not even the correct twist rate.
At that time I decided that button barrel makers were doing no more than divvying up the cheaper barrel market.
There are better button barrel makers today, some mentioned. If I were you considering any today, I would investigate details of their process as I did, no matter what our mob claims about them..
Another barrel maker not mentioned is Loather Walther. Sadly famous for hammer forging, and god awful hard steel, yet more capable than any and all other barrel makers in existence. In fact, if it can be done with barrels, LW can do it. Any rifling, any lapping, any steel, any process, and actually capable of measuring and manufacturing to prescribed bore dimensions. This is not the same as merely air gauging to validate tolerances.
Hammer forging in itself can also have it's advantages, in that a heavily contoured hammer tightens at the muzzle with heat(opposite of buttoned). Tightest at the muzzle is essential for accuracy, and nobody knows this better than LW, who offers a separate accurizing service to ensure it.
I've never ordered a LW, but will some day.
I always consider stress, a contouring plan, lapping needs, and intended field use.
And every finished barrel of mine from now on will be melonite treated, as barrel life is just too important to dismiss.
With this, I guess I'll never end up with a Proof Research barrel.. They will not allow it.
I purchased a 10 twist from amongst the best known button rifled barrel manufacturers and received it with a ~10.5 twist.
If I'd wanted a 10.5 twist, I'd have ordered 10.5.
Only cut-rifled barrels for me since then. No more excuses attributed to the button rifling process. I didn't appreciate being the butt of the rifling process. Gunsmith never confirmed the barrel twist rate prior to chambering / fitting. I find out only after the barrel won't stabilize some bullets I wanted to shoot.
A full custom disappointment. Woe is me...
If I'd wanted a 10.5 twist, I'd have ordered 10.5.
Only cut-rifled barrels for me since then. No more excuses attributed to the button rifling process. I didn't appreciate being the butt of the rifling process. Gunsmith never confirmed the barrel twist rate prior to chambering / fitting. I find out only after the barrel won't stabilize some bullets I wanted to shoot.
A full custom disappointment. Woe is me...
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Yep... It's my curse as well Phorwath.
What burns me is considering that someone is running these barrels through their machines, just going through the motions and never verifying a **** thing. No matter the outcome of the barrels, they're going out the door.
My schneider order went this way. The first barrel arrived packed full of gunk, so I know nothing was checked, wrong contour..
Sent it back.
Second barrel arrived clean, correct contour, but unlapped, way wrong twist..
Luckily, I had these sent to me before finishing from a gunbuilder.
Schneider would not replace the second barrel,, claimed they were losing too much money on me, but they weren't. I'm sure they were putting the barrels returned from me back on the rack, ready to go out the door with any next order.
So while they offered refund on the barrel order, I would not return the second barrel knowing that it would just lead to someone else getting screwed. Instead I ate the cost and dropped it into the nearest dumpster.
~20yrs I've been warning people about Gary Schneider.
Wonder how much that saved him!
What burns me is considering that someone is running these barrels through their machines, just going through the motions and never verifying a **** thing. No matter the outcome of the barrels, they're going out the door.
My schneider order went this way. The first barrel arrived packed full of gunk, so I know nothing was checked, wrong contour..
Sent it back.
Second barrel arrived clean, correct contour, but unlapped, way wrong twist..
Luckily, I had these sent to me before finishing from a gunbuilder.
Schneider would not replace the second barrel,, claimed they were losing too much money on me, but they weren't. I'm sure they were putting the barrels returned from me back on the rack, ready to go out the door with any next order.
So while they offered refund on the barrel order, I would not return the second barrel knowing that it would just lead to someone else getting screwed. Instead I ate the cost and dropped it into the nearest dumpster.
~20yrs I've been warning people about Gary Schneider.
Wonder how much that saved him!
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Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
adam32
Well-Known Member
Seems to me a few people here should start up their own barrel making company so they have no one to complain about except themselves.
I'm glad all the animals I've shot with first shots out of button barrels didn't know I was shooting barrels that aren't "hunting grade" or else they might not have died.
Some stuff that gets posted on the Internet is comical at times.
I'm glad all the animals I've shot with first shots out of button barrels didn't know I was shooting barrels that aren't "hunting grade" or else they might not have died.
Some stuff that gets posted on the Internet is comical at times.
Are you saying they won't die if the bullet travelled down a cut rifled barrel? That's the most anyone could get from your post... If you intended something more, you failed.
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Kmccord
Well-Known Member
I was wondering about Hart barrels, for one, a custom gun maker McWhorter Custom Rifles specifically loves this manufacturer and they also love Borden custom actions as well. I have a Brux barrel and I am happy with it, but was wondering what other manufacturers barrels are like. I here a lot of people talking about Krieger and Bartlein, but not much, if any on Hart, some on Brux, but it does seem alot are using Bartlein or Krieger.
It's not coincidental. If you're investing 4-6$K and an 18 month waiting period into a custom rifle, you'll want to maximize the odds of getting a shooter the first time around.
Hart barrels have a good reputation though.
Hart barrels have a good reputation though.
adam32
Well-Known Member
That's about all anyone can get out of this entire thread.
The diarrhea of the mouth from "experts" is something else.
I'd like to see someone tell Kirby or Shawn that button barrels shouldn't be used on hunting rifles. Or McWhorter, or Karl or several other actual gunsmiths that build rifles for a living.
I bought mine from Kirby. Ended up with the 10.5 twist instead of the 10 twist. And now you know Lilja made the barrel.
I didn't throw a stink about it. Unlike the stench emitted from your posts.
If I'd have purchased a cut rifled barrel, it would have been what we ordered. 10 twist. And I could have shot some bullets I'm now unable to.
I am an expert on that much of what happened. Are you more expert?
I didn't throw a stink about it. Unlike the stench emitted from your posts.
If I'd have purchased a cut rifled barrel, it would have been what we ordered. 10 twist. And I could have shot some bullets I'm now unable to.
I am an expert on that much of what happened. Are you more expert?
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adam32
Well-Known Member
Only to the point that when someone says button barrels aren't good enough for hunting rifles I know it's horse****
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
I am here to tell you it does not matter if the barrel is cut or buttoned so far as cold bore goes. Thats ridiculous. If there is stress in a barrel there is stress in a barrel. If you know of a cut barrel that is heat treating/stress relieving in house Id love to know because I will be trying some. Broughton for example stress relieves after every major machining process. The finest cold bore barrel I have owned is a Broughton. Thats a button. I chamber a lot of barrels every week, and I can tell you by how they machine that the better buttons are consistent and cut like butter. One of the big cut guys has so much variation in the steel I can hardly believe they go out that way. I am a cut rifled barrel guy, but some of the stuff being said here is a joke.
