BARREL LAPPING: why ain't it S.O.P.?

[Danehunter]

With all the recent talk here and in magazine articles about barrel break in I'm realizing there likely is a different procedure for nicely lapped barrels as opposed to those with machining marks left there when no lapping is done.

SO... WHY NOT JUST FACTORY LAP ALL BARRELS? Are price points that important that a Ruger American or Savage 110 can't have another $50. added for the process?

I realize that non-lapped barrels with cold hammer forging may be fairly smooth and lapping would not be a great improvement for the cost. (Ruger is an example here.)

But still barrel lapping would be very nice to have. My X-Bolt Pro has it but it's the only X-Bolt model that does have it. Why?

I used a NECO Fire Lapping Kit to lap my former 300 Win mag A-Bolt barrel and it worked very well. Less copper fouling after 20 or 30 rounds.

Eric B.

 

[Mikecr]

You got my vote. I agree.

 

[tdot]

The problem with incremental increases in costs at the manufacturing stage, is that they quite easily add 300% to 600% of that additional cost to the final sales price of the unit.

$1 increased cost x manufacturer markup (50%) = $1.50
× national distributor markup (100%) = $3.00
× retailer markup (100%) = $6.00

You can change those markups and the number of people who take a piece of the action, add taxes, duties, etc, and you'll get different numbers, and each situation is different. But the end result is that $1 increase in cost substantially changes the end purchase price.

If we add $50 to the manufacturer costs and that adds $300 to the end user, then that rifle is suddenly in a completely different group of comparable rifles.

 

[Plinker147]

1st Price point is one and its a big one. Average gun buyers don't buy expensive equipment.

2nd its not a completely accepted theory that its necessary. I have never done it on 20-30 factory and custom guns and have never had any issue having sub MOA rifles with most customs being 1/2 MOA

 

[Mikecr]

Maybe if it was offered with a special model. They could throw in bedding and a trigger that's worth a darn too.

 

[Danehunter]

Mikecr,
Well that 6.5 PRC X-Bolt Pro I mentioned has barrel lapping along with excellent bedding (see this month's "Precision Rifle Shooter" article on the Browning X-Bolt Max Long Range rifle) and its 3 lever trigger is as good as any SAKO trigger and that's saying a lot.

But yeah, it cost me $1,780. on a deal, so not cheap. Quite a lot plus it shoots Hornady 143 gr. ELD-X factory ammo into 7/8" at 200 yards so I'm happy with laying out that kind of cash for all those features.

Eric B.

 

[cjl2010]

I'm pretty sure you work for Browning.

 

[Danehunter]

(sssshhh!)

 

[J E Custom]

With all the recent talk here and in magazine articles about barrel break in I'm realizing there likely is a different procedure for nicely lapped barrels as opposed to those with machining marks left there when no lapping is done.

SO... WHY NOT JUST FACTORY LAP ALL BARRELS? Are price points that important that a Ruger American or Savage 110 can't have another $50. added for the process?

I realize that non-lapped barrels with cold hammer forging may be fairly smooth and lapping would not be a great improvement for the cost. (Ruger is an example here.)

But still barrel lapping would be very nice to have. My X-Bolt Pro has it but it's the only X-Bolt model that does have it. Why?

I used a NECO Fire Lapping Kit to lap my former 300 Win mag A-Bolt barrel and it worked very well. Less copper fouling after 20 or 30 rounds.

Eric B.

Lapping is labor intensive if done right and normally drives the cost up. The reason that Premium barrels are normally lapped is to improve the interior finish and remove machine marks that effect accuracy. If done correctly it also levels out the bore diameter. Lapping also decreases the number of brake in shots needed to get the best accuracy. I have broke in well lapped barrels with as few as 7 or 8 shots. Other premium barrels that were not lapped took as many as 20 to 30 rounds to peak in performance. Factory barrels are any where from 60 to infinity and never really reach a machine mark free state.

There is an art to doing a really good lap on a barrel and the person needs to know where the problems are and how to end up with the best outcome. The main difference in the different barrel qualities when doing a lap is the time it takes. The more machine marks, the longer it takes.

If a barrel is not close to a proper finish and size, I do not recommend lapping. The barrel manufactures that lap their barrels allow for this with the bore reamer and lapping does not increase the bore diameter over spec.

J E CUSTOM

 

[shortgrass]

I realize that non-lapped barrels with cold hammer forging may be fairly smooth and lapping would not be a great improvement for the cost. (Ruger is an example here.)



Eric B.

Some of the nastiest looking barrels I've bore scoped have been hammer forged...

 

[J E Custom]

Some of the nastiest looking barrels I've bore scoped have been hammer forged...

I would have to agree with this and add that I have also bore scoped many bad cut rifled barrels, and hand lapped barrels that were done by someone that didn't know what they were doing and they ruined the barrel. Lapping should only be done as a last resort and buy someone that has experience and knowledge of how to do a good job and when to stop to prevent ruining the barre. I have done quite a few. and prefer NOT to do them if there is any another way.

The best way to lap is while the barrel is a blank so both ends can be removed to get to good bore quality. You will normally find the first inch of a lapped barrel over sized. the muzzle end has to be removed and the chamber reamer takes care of the breach end.

On a chambered and used barrel a special throat protector should be used to lap and a 1/2 "+ of the muzzle should be removed after lapping. Bore scopes can be scary after looking at your nice shinny barrel with a bore light.

J E CUSTOM

 

[sable tireur]

Lapping is labor intensive if done right and normally drives the cost up.

There is an art to doing a really good lap on a barrel and the person needs to know where the problems are and how to end up with the best outcome.

I agree with these two quotes since I've had more experience than I care to remember lapping barrels. It IS labor intensive and has to be a large factor in driving up the price of a finished barrel.

It's not just training when teaching a person how to lap barrels. It's a feeling and knowing what can and cannot be done. There is art to such a practice.

Lapping should only be done as a last resort and buy someone that has experience and knowledge of how to do a good job and when to stop to prevent ruining the barre.

This might apply to an existing barrel which has been attached to an action such as one from the factory but it certainly does not apply to custom barrel manufacturers at all. Many custom barrel makers lap their barrel as a matter course, a routine, as part of the manufacturing process and there is no harm done because a professional is doing the lapping. They want their customers to receive the very best product they can manufacture. Pride in workmanship.

 

[ntsqd]

The problem with incremental increases in costs at the manufacturing stage, is that they quite easily add 300% to 600% of that additional cost to the final sales price of the unit.

$1 increased cost x manufacturer markup (50%) = $1.50
× national distributor markup (100%) = $3.00
× retailer markup (100%) = $6.00

You can change those markups and the number of people who take a piece of the action, add taxes, duties, etc, and you'll get different numbers, and each situation is different. But the end result is that $1 increase in cost substantially changes the end purchase price.

If we add $50 to the manufacturer costs and that adds $300 to the end user, then that rifle is suddenly in a completely different group of comparable rifles.

Your post has merit, but when I was working retail there were very, very few things in the whole store that could carry a 100% mark-up. None of the firearms would. A really nice margin on a firearm was 30%, and those were rare. Most really retail savvy folks look at this industry and wonder why anyone bothers.

 

[cohunt]

I know its not "tit for tat" but compare the costs of the browning AB3 stalker in 7 rem mag to the x-bolt stalker in 7 rem mag--- real world prices are $470 for the AB3 vs $721 for the x-bolt --- that adds $251 to the cost-- now I know the x-bolt has a better stock, lapped barrel, and "bedded action" (2 dabs of bedding compound on mine)-- I also know that the x-bolt is the "premium line up" vs the AB3 is the "budget minded" line but as you can see the "extras" add $250 to the price, not just $50

as far as I know, browning uses a "machine lapping" process which is less labor intensive than hand lapping and it still adds a considerable amount of cost to the rifle---If you like the "lapped" barrels then search for deals--- pre-owned/un-used "custom" barrels, last years closeout model of the x-bolt, etc

I bought my LR stalker as the "prior year" model with the std twist (rather than the new fast twist) --it was a steal after all was said and done