Ballsitic Tip and V-max past 500 yards dont work (WRONG)

[Desert Fox]

[ QUOTE ]
I know, I could use something smaller, however, I wanted something with some power too. I have a place where I shoot and the average shot is between 450 to 550 yards. I wanted something that would be very flat out to that range with some awesome explosive mist factor.


[/ QUOTE ]

Jake, I shot lots of groundsquirrels at that distance using my 6MM Remington loaded with 87grain V-Max, at an anemic 3300 fps. When I connected, the squirrels explodes just like the groundhogs on Richard's video.

 

[wildcat]

Buffalorancher, thanks for the info. I saw that thread by Kirby. I am leaning towards the 105grn Berger (.556 BC) and the 105grn Lupua Scenar (.530 BC). I would like to push the 105's at around 3500 to 3600 fps, if possible.

Wildcat

 

[wildcat]

My last 6x284 pushed the 87grn V-max at 3750fps, out of 30" pipe, and very accurate, .168 three shot group at 100 yards. I used a 1-12 twist barrel on that project, however, I am going to go with a 1-9 twist on my 6x284 project. This will allow me to shoot not only the 105 and 107 grn bullets, but also the 87grn V-max too.

I am glad I decided to make the change, I know I will be happier in the long run.

Wildcat

 

[.25AOD]

WOW... so you're telling me this has all come around to a 6mm of some sort or another. Isn't that what I said in another post you had on the subject? My factory 6mm Rem. with a 1/10 twist will shoot the 107 SMK and the 105 A-Max both under an inch at 200yds, and the cool thing is it'll shoot them to the same point of impact as the 55 grainer. SO, when I have a shot that's inside 350 or so... it's the 55 grain Nosler Splat-O-Matic!! When they're 450 to about 600 yds, I go to one of the Long Rangers (I actually prefer the 87 V-Max for this type of work). This system has worked for me for years. Pick your Poison: a 55 grain BT @ 4100 or an 87 grain V-Max @ 3350. Either way it's one unhappy critter!! I hope it works out for you, it'll be a WAY better squirel gun than a big as .30... that's for sure. ~JT

 

[wildcat]

I agree, I loved my last 6x284. I just really thought the 300-WSM with 125grn BT would be a good project. However, from all the advice and info, I guess it wasn't a good choice after all. I truley thought the 300-WSM would push the 125grn BT at over 4000+fps. However, from all the info I received from everyone it looked like I maybe got some false info and didn't reserch the velocity element enough.

Anyhow, I know the 6x284, with the 105's, will be a great long range squirrel rifle. Here are the specs;

1. 6x284 Match Chamber for Lupua brass.

2. Nesika Model L, 1.470 Diameter Action, with Fluted bolt, Tactical Bolt knob.

3. Krieger 30", 1-8.5 twist 4 groove, 1.450 straight cylinder, throated for the 105 and 107grn Bullets.

4. McMillan Tooley MBR, 5 pounds lead added, removable front stud for bi-pod use.

5. Jewel 2oz Trigger.

6. Vias Muzzle brake.

7. Davidson 20MOA Base.

9. Kelby 30mm Rings.

10. Nightforce 8x32x56mm NXS with MLR reticle.

11. Weight will be around 30 pounds.

This will be a very steady rifle. I probably don't even need the brake, however, I still want one. This baby should not even kick at all.

I forgot who it was, but someone should me a hit percentage he had with a high BC and Ballistic Tip type bullets. It was really eye opening, I've always had a pretty good hit percentage with the Ballistic Tip and V-Max type bullets. However, I am pretty confident after seeing the information from you all, my hit percentage will go way up by using the 105 and 107's.

Like I said, thanks for all the info and help. I made all the calls to Nesika, Krieger, and Vias today and made all the changes to the equipment. I am glad you guys talked some sence into me about this project. If I would have waited any longer, It would have been too late to make the changes.

Someone posted a DROP and WIDAGE chart showing the amount of MOA needed for shots from 100 to 1000 yards with a 105grn Berger VLD. I am thinking I should be able to push the bullet out at around 3500fps out of a 30" barrel. If someone would post that chart again, I would appreciate it very much.

Wildcat

 

[Hired Gun]

Before you say sold consider this. This is a great platorm and will support a much larger project and still be near recoiless. I have been playing with one of Kirby's 338AM's shooting 300 grain SMK at 3300 and it is recoiless in a 30-35 pound rifle. Why not stay with the 30 caliber for the huge choice of bullets and use the 300RUM for a nice easy case to use. In a 30" barrel I wouldn't be surprised if it wouldn't hit 3450 or better with a 200 grain bullet. The Nosler 200grain Accubond has a BC of .588 and there are lots of VLD design bullets that have an even higher BC. This is a proven solid 1000 yard rig that will not only erase diggers it will roll ELK with authority. I shoot that Accubond out of my 11 pound Accumark in 300Wby idling @ 3100 and it hardly kicks at all with the factory Accubrake. My buddy shoots the same setup in a 12 pound Sendero in 300RUM and his will do 3200 in a 26" barrel. We can both spot our own hits and I use a 25 power scope. It doesn't just lay there but it would at 30 pounds. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to build your rifle as a 300RUM. Bullets from 110 to 240 grains should keep you busy experimenting for a long time. My search is over. Another quick 1000 rounds and mine will be sporting a 28"-30" inch tube in a Sendero profile with a Holland brake on it. I already have a 22-250, a 25-06AI and a 257Wby set up for varmints but I like my 300Wby the best.

 

[wildcat]

Just trying to keep the post at the top for more opinions and advice.

Wildcat

 

[Hired Gun]

Why not start a new one titled, "Why not the 300?" or "The lowly 6mm verses the full power 300." A lot of people shy away from big threads like this one. This many posts and there can't be much new stuff or it's a flame war.

 

[uncleB]

Just to add a few comments that were left out by others, I agree with most of fiftydrivers post. one item he left out of his biblical post that warrants a mention is that with a 300WSM and 125gr bt's you will never get close to single digit SD's (standard deviation) with this light of bullet for bore diameter that means a lot of verticle in your groups at 1000yds.

as for switching to a fast twist 6mm-284 you will not get the velocity you are looking for without having bullet blow-up after a few hundred rounds unless you go to a 5or 6groove barrel with the 107gr SMK.
IMHO if you want to go 6mm go to a 6mmAI on one extreme or 6mmBR on the other extreme. the 6-284 is just too much of a barrel burner for squirrels. I should know after burning out many a 6-284 barrel.
my favorite at the moment is a 6BR IMP. at 3050fps with 95gr Berger, just a few more clicks up on your Nightforce and quadruple barrel life.
UB

 

[wildcat]

Uncleb, what kind of velocity can I expect with a 1.8.5 twist 4 groove Barrel, I am thinking the 6x284 will easly push the 105's and 107's at around 3500 fps, I don't think the will blow up at that speed, maybe I am wrong. I would like get some more feed back an this issue.

Wildcat

 

[jwp475]

The experienced long range guy's are trying to tell you that the speeds that you want to get is pushing the case too hard and that the fast twist barrel that is needed for those bullets is hard on the jackets at the speeds that you are talking about and this will disrupt the integrity of the jacket and cause problems. They are also trying very hard to get you to understeand that speed is not as important as you want it to be. They king of the hill at the moment for super long range is the 50 BMG, because the bc is so high ( 1.o4) or something like that, and it starts its journey at under 3K..........They are also trying to tell you that for a PD,GS,etc gun that the 6-284 will not have enough barrel life to really grt started and then it's re-barrel time.....

 

[wildcat]

JWP475, I know speed is not the key, I understand this. After all the info I've received from everyone, I've decided that 3300 to 3350fps will be my goal with the 105grn bullets. I spoke with Krieger today, and they informed me their 1-8.5 twist 4 groove barrel is working well with the 105grn Lapua's and Bergers at 3350fps.

Regarding barrel life, I will be using this rifle for squirrel hunting. However, I need to make this clear, I only get to shoot squirrel 3 times a year. I will only use this rifle for shots from 400 to 100 yards. I will probably only shoot it between 50 to 60 shots during each session. I think most of you are thinking I am going to be putting hundreds of rounds through the barrel during each session. This is not the case. I use my 17HMR for the 100 to 300 yard shots. As I mentioned above, I will not be putting 200 or 300 roundS through the barrel during my squirrel hunting sessions, so I wont be burning out the barrel like you guys think.

I agree, if I were going to put 150 to 200 rounds through the barrel during each squirrel hunting session, I would go with the a smaller 6mm. However, this is not the case. I will not have a problem with barrel life, because I will not be putting hundreds of rounds through the barrel during each session.


Other reasons why I wanted to go with the 6x284, I've owned one before and loved it, and my buddies use the 6BR and a 243 for varminting and they both wished they had a 6x284. Although they do well out to 1000 yards with their 6BR and 243 with high BC bullets, they just don't have enough gun to put them down at that range. Both of my buddeis, because of this reason, are in the process of putting togather 6x284's too. My next rifle project will be a 6BR for shorter range and high volume varminting out to 300 and 600 yards.

Wildcat