Ballsitic Tip and V-max past 500 yards dont work (WRONG)

[Buffalobob]

Wildcat

Jimm is a very nice person and I have hunted with him and I know for a fact that when he speaks about BT's and 30 cal magnums that it is based upon experience. You might also notice that he took some considerable time to respond to your question on shooting prairie dogs and he did it very courteously.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I am one of the few who really like NBT's for hunting/varminting. I'm not one to be making shots past 800 yards, but here goes anyways.

I think NBT's in the heavy for caliber weights, more often then not are capable of 800-1000 yards kills quite easily. It just depends on what your wanting to kill, and shoot it with. I dont think a 125g NBT at 4K is going to do much good past about 600 yards. I'll agree with everyone else and say your "probly" not going to get 4K. I was able to get 3950fps out of a 26" 300 RUM. What a waste of time anyways....Point is, if you were to use the 165g or better yet, even the 180g NBT that would still have sufficient enough numbers to cleany and reliablly hit the hogs at 1K. I'm sure the velocity would catch up to the 125g sooner, then later. Not to mention, you'll have a little more energy on target, and A LOT less wind drift. I just think you really are going in the totally wrong directoin as far as your thinking. I dont see how you've successfully killed those squirrels at 1K with a 223 or a swift shooting 40g bullets anyways, thats quite a poke with those bullets...Not real likely as Kirby showed by the numbers...

Anyways, I dont wanna get into a ****in match about anything, but I believe the heavier NBT's would work and can work well out to 1000 yards, but not the lightest for caliber, thats just the wrong way to look at things to hit LR. Wildcat, you've been a member on here long enough to know that your thinking, is not logical. Light fast bullets just plain suck balls at LR. We all know that anyways...Were just trying to help steer you in the right direction so you can hit them little devils a little easier!

 

[wildcat]

Fifty, first of all thanks for all the info. Also, I agree with everyone, the VLD bullets are without a doubt a better bullet for long range shooting.

What happened was, I had a couple people on one of my posts say that ballistic tip bullets will not perform past 500 yards. This is simply not true, they will perform well past 500 yards. That's what the post was supposed to point out, however, I think some my have taken it the wrong way.

I have never used a .22 cal V-max or Ballistic tip for 1000 yard shots on varmints, I think you misunderstood me. I've used .22 cal V-Max and Ballistic Tips for shots out to 600 yards with good results. I've used the 6mm 87grn V-max for shots out to 800, 900, and 1000 yards with good results as well.

Regarding the 4000+fps debate regarding my project. I have been talking to Richard Franklin of Richards Custom Rifles. This how I got my idea to build this rifle. He has informed me he is getting over 4000+fps with the 125grn BT out of his 300-WSM. His rifle is designed around shooting this bullet too. I will have the barrel throated for the 125grn BT, which will allow me to seat the bullet farther out also allowing me to get 75grns of Vhitivoria N550 in the case. Richard, has been getting awesome results with this combination as well as 4000+fps. I need to understand something, are you saying I wont get 4000+fps with this combination, or are you saying I want get 4000+fps without loosing case life. If that's the case I understand, however, if you say I wont be able to get 4000+fps no matter what I do, than is Richard Franklin making this up.

You mentioned something about my knowledge base, and I think you said that because you thought I ment I use .22 cal BT's for 1000 yard varmint shooting, I don't. So, I understand why you said that, so I wont take offense to it. I have lot's of knowledge about ballistics and long range rifles. I know the VLD bullets are best for long range shooting, I just wanted to make a point that the V-max and Ballistic Tip bullets do perform past 500 yards.

Wildcat

 

[Desert Fox]

Jake, buddy, I think you were sold watching Richard Franklin's video. The shot's on groundhogs looks impressived but I doubt if they were done farther than 600 yards. 300WSM Varmint rifle for us Californians is way overkill unless of course you don't mind rebarelling every so often. Our main quarry, the groundsquirrels, are much smaller than a groundhog. You don't need 300WSM for that.

 

[wildcat]

I agree with all of you regarding the High BC bullet, I just wanted to make a point that these will work past 500 yards.

One more thing I never said I used .22 cal V-max or BT bullets for 1000 shots on varmints. I've used .22 cal for shots out to 600 yards, and I've used 6mm 87grn V-max bullets for shots out to 700, 800, 900 and 1000 yards. Sorry, if you guys misunderstood me.

Wildcat

 

[wildcat]

I didn't mean to come off angry, I apologize if some took it that way. I just wanted to make a point that these bullets will perform past the 500 yard mark in the larger bullets. I know they perform well because they have worked for me on many occasions, and I wanted to clear up the misconseption that V-max and Ballistic Tip bullets wont work well past 500 yrads.

I also agree with everyone, I would never use any of these bullets past 1000 yards.

Wildcat

 

[wildcat]

I know, I could use something smaller, however, I wanted something with some power too. I have a place where I shoot and the average shot is between 450 to 550 yards. I wanted something that would be very flat out to that range with some awesome explosive mist factor.

Wildcat

 

[CatShooter]

Wildkitty...

Don't take this the wrong way, but.

Richard builds some beautiful rifles, and he is an excellent craftsman.

But his video is very creative, and I don't mean that in a flattering way.

The extra length and a 15" twist will give you something extra in velocity, but as I recall he claims 3900 for the 125 BT and 4100 for the 110 V-Max. No way, fuzzy Jose'. It just ain't gonna happen.

I think he pulls the trigger VERY hard to get those velocities. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The DVD is a sales tool for him, and it is nice - I loved it this winter when we had 3 feet of snow on the ground, and spring was 3 months away.

But while I was watching it... I noticed that he was missing a LOT of shots at 500 to 700yds, and for that rifle he was using, the humongo shooting platform on wheels, and the rangefinders, etc... that was pee-pee poor shooting.

It doesn't take a $4500 rifle to whack woodies at 400 to 500 yds.

If you run the DVD forwards on slow single frame, you will see that a lot of those woodies were already dead when they take off to the moon.

Here's something to think about.

I have shot woodchucks in Pennsylvania in the summer, across looong fields at noon. You CAN'T take video of a shot on a woodchuck at 400-600 yds without tons of boiling mirage.

You wanna video a shot at that distance, you will see a pot of boiling water, and have a hard time seeing the critter.

But in Richard's video, there is no mirage.

Where did it go??

It's cuz he was 80 or 100 yds away.

Also... when you shoot a bigassed cannon like a 300 Mag, and video the shot out to 400 to 600 yds, you see the "trace" of the bullet. It looks like ripples in a smooth lake.

Where's the trace in Richard's video??

There ain't none!

You will notice that most of the shots are of a woodie for a 1/10th of a second, and it flies through the air. These shots are all of the woodchuck lying down, some in "odd", unnatural positions. Very Few of the shots show the chuck moving for a few seconds before getting splatted.

It's because Richard shoots dead woodchucks at close range.

I remember one scene that is listed at 1950-ish yards. You can make out the individual leaves on the trees.

A full sunny day in August, and not a tiny bit of mirage over a path of more than a mile??? Sorry, but that just ain't happening.

On a sunny August day in Pennsylvania, through a scope at a mile, you can NOT tell a small Honda from a big pick-up truck.

Richard's video is what is called in the wildlife business, a "Hump-up".

Enjoy the pretty pictures, but don't believe it for a New York minute.

-

If you get a decent (or even not so decent) ballistic program, and run the 6mm Ackley, the 243 Ackley, the 6mm Gibbs, the 6mmx284, and other hot 6mms, with the 75 or 87 V-Maxs... or the 264 WM, and the 6.5mm Gibbs with the 95 V-max.

Run them against the 300WSM with the 125 BT or the 110 V-Max... you will see that they shoot FLATTER, are LESS affected by the wind, and hit HARDER at the critter end of the process, than Richard's "wonder guns" (which makes you "wonder" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

.

 

[wildcat]

Thanks for the info, I will take a look and see if I can see what your seeing in the video. Regarding the velocity issue, he says he gets 4000+fps with the 125grn BT, however, I will put the video in and take a listen.

Wildcat

 

[ss7mm]

In case you're interested and just FYI

 

[wildcat]

Thanks for the info, interesting stuff. Maybe, I will go with something different. Maybe, a 6x284 with the 105's and 107's may be the better route for what I am trying to do. Thanks for all the advice, I just thought this would be a great project for 1000 yards. After seeing the data and hearing from everyone, I guess I was wrong.

Wildcat

 

[Dan B]

WC...I just put in a full day shooting w/ five specialty handgun shooters. We were spatting milk jugs from 300 to 500yds. Granted...not 1K and they were milk jugs not squirrels, but you said most of your shooting is 450-550yds and we were shooting handguns!! We were easily mowing down jugs at 400yds with 7mm-08's shooting 120gr VM's (MV 2600) and 140gr CT's (MV 2450). I was shooting a .222 Rem Mag Imp w/ 50gr VM's (MV 3100)and making 80% hits. Then I switched to the .250 Savage Imp w/ 100gr SMK's (MV 2680fps) and my hits jumped to 90%. One fella was shooting a .260 Rem w/ 120gr BT's (MV 2650) and went 100% hits! At 500yds the .250 Sav Imp dropped to about 70%, the .260 to about the 50%. I grabbed my APS XP-100 7mm-270WSM w. 162gr A-Max's (MV 2825) and started slamming jugs w/ no problem.

This was all through an 80 degree day and boiling mirage...the jugs were DANCING!! My point...connecting with a handgun at the ranges you are talking about to pretty easy. You are going WAY overkill.

I think you would make a WISE decision by going 6-284, 243AI, etc and shooting the high BC 6mm pills.

 

[wildcat]

Dan, I agree and I am going to go with a 6x284. I just really thought the 300-WSM with a 125grn BT would be a great combo. Anyhow, I am glad everyone gave me advise and steered me in the right direction, I will be happier going this route.

Wildcat

 

[buffalorancher]

Wildcat
My 6-284 will blow up the 105 gr A-Max when I get close to 3300 FPS with an ABS/Rock 1-8.2 twist. There was a thread on this a few of weeks ago and Kirby had some good info. with regards to the 6-284. 107 SMK shoot great and prarie dogs haven't seemed to notice the difference between the few A-Max I've gotten down the tube and the SMK. I am in the process of getting a load for the 95 gr. BT as I was hoping for a bullet that performed better on game than the 107 SMK and the A-Max was going to be it hopefully but now looks like the Nosler will be tested. If I had to do it over I would look at a little milder 6mm. Good bullets and barrel life make the 243 AI on down very appealing and there shouldn't be any bullet explosions. One of my guides shoots a 243 AI on an old Springfield and it is a very accurate and pleasant rifle to shoot.
Lance