Wow!!!
I have yet to hear anyone say that a Ballistic Tip or V-Max bullet will not work past 500 yards. Hell even out to 800 yards. The question comes down to are they the best for long range shooting. Simply put, no way.
Before I start my response, let me first say that I personally feel there is no safe, practical way for you to achieve 4000 fps with a 300 WSM with a 125 gr bullet weight. A 300 Win Mag will top out around 3700-3800 fps in a 30" barrel.
The 300 WSM, in spite of what has been said in the press, WILL NOT MATCH A 300 WIN MAG in performance when both are loaded to same chamber pressures in same barrel length with same bullet weights.
A 300 RUM may get you 4K in the right rifle, to get it with a 300 WSM would be, again in my opinion, impossible with comfortable pressures.
All that aside, lets get back to the topic of Ballistic Tips and V-Max bullets not working past 500 yards. Again, I have never heard anyone on this board say that. What I have heard said is that there are much better choices for long range shooting if your looking for higher retained velocity, higher retained energy and dramatically less wind drift.
Trajectory, out to a point I will give you that a light fast bullet will be impressive, but bullet drop is so easy to compensate for its hardly worth including in the discussion of LR shooting. Its wind drift that will make you miss 90% of the time because it is impossible to perfectly dope the wind at long range.
As such, you will get a higher percentage of hits with a high BC bullet compared to a low one because your windage estimate can have a larger margin of error then with a light low BC bullet.
As far as terminal performance the tipped bullets will open up better at long range as long as their velocity remains at a certain point.
Lets look at some numbers for rounds you listed. In the 223 we will use a 55 gr Ballistic Tip(bc .267) at 3200 fps. In the 220 we will use the same 55 gr BT at 3900 fps. In the 6-284 we will use the 70 gr BT(BC .310) at 3900 fps.
For comparision, we will use the rifle and load I used this last week to take a large Fallow buck, a 22-250 AI with the 100 gr ULD RBBT Wildcat(bc .600 from drop test) loaded to 3100 fps.
At 500 yards, here are the retained velocity numbers:
223.............1615 fps
220.............2074 fps
6-284...........2285 fps
22-250 AI.......2320 fps
While the 22-250 AI load was by far the slowest starting load of the four, it has already surpassed them all at 500 yards and only the big 6-284 is even close as both the swift and 223 have fallen WAY back in retained velocity.
There is really no point but lets look at the 1000 yard retained velocity numbers:
223................940 fps (there will be no expansion)
220................1061 fps (there will be no expansion)
6-284..............1223 fps (minimul expansion)
22-250 AI..........1686 fps
With a properly designed bullet and open meplat the 22-250 AI load should offer expansion out to 1000 yards easily while the others will be not at all or minimum. In the case of the 223 and 220, you will get no expansion at all, even with the tipped bullets to terminal performance at this range will be very poor. Hit a prairie dog in the head and he is dead, hit him anywhere else and you will not stop him before he hits his den.
Now lets look at energy numbers at 500 yards:
223.....................318 ft/lbs
220.....................525 ft/lbs
6-284...................812 ft/lbs
22-250 AI...............1195 ft/lbs
The 223 will have similiar energy to the hotter 22 long rifles out today at the muzzle. Plenty for small game but in my opinion, no good for anything larger then prairie dogs and gophers. Yes if you hit a chuck or yote in the head, he will die. But if you do not, you will loose them a very high percentage of the time.
The Swift still has enough power for game up to the size of yotes at this range pretty comfortably.
The 6-284 is still packing a good load for varmints but the 22-250 AI still has plenty of ft/lbs of energy for even lighter deer size game. It is totally out of the league of the other rounds its compared to here inspite of its sluggish muzzle velocity.
Now at 1000 yards:
223........................108 ft/lbs
220........................137 ft/lbs
6-284......................234 ft/lbs
22-250 AI..................631 ft/lbs
Now the 223 and 220 are not even worth discussing. You will not have any expansion and you very little retained energy. Basically, you better brain a P. dog or you will loose him.
The 6-284 is better but not by much, about the level of a standard 22 Rim Fire at the muzzle. again, if you brain them, they will die but anything else will be a lost vermin.
The 22-250 AI, while not a powerhouse still offers 4.5 times as much energy as the hot rodded 220 swift at this range and close to three times more then the 6-284.
It would be totally practical to take yote size game with the 22-250 AI at this range without saying its luck. Not so with the others even on chuck size game, again without a direct brain hit.
Now lets look at the reason we all miss, windage. Here are the 500 yard numbers:
223......................34.5"
220......................25.4"
6-284....................20.9"
22-250 AI................13.4"
The numbers speak for themselves. The 22-250 AI has 1/2 the windage of the 220 and a full 7" less then the big 6-284. Guessing around a foot of windage is alot easier then 2 or 3 feet of windage at this range. This is with only a 10 mph crosswind as well.
Now lets look at 1000 yards:
223........................179.1"
220........................143.5"
6-284......................113.4"
22-250 AI..................61.9"
Still it ranges anywhere from nearly twice to nearly 3 times as much drift with the first three fast rounds compared to the windage of the slow 22-250 AI with the 100 gr pill.
Now lets look at bullet drop, your fast rounds should do better here one would think, but do they really???? Here are 500 yard drop numbers with a 300 yard zero:
223...................-34.5"
220...................-21.4"
6-284.................-19.8"
22-250 AI.............-23.6"
Basically, the last three are in the same class. Yes the slower 22-250 AI drops more then the swift and 6-284 but only by 2" and 4" respectively. The 223 is not even close to these three.
At 1000 yards:
223......................-442"
220......................-283"
6-284....................-227"
22-250 AI................-213"
So for all the hoopla at the muzzle, all drop more then the lowly 22-250 AI at a 3100 fps muzzle velocity. The 223 drops over 19 feet more!!!! The 220 drops over 6 feet more and the hot rod 6-284 drops around a foot more.
Again, I do not care about bullet drop much. This is easy to figure and comp for but its just another area that proves high velocity, low BC bullets will not run with slower high BC bullets.
Now to compare directly with your 300 WSM idea. I would say 3800 fps will be the highest velocity you will ever see and still get usible case life.
As such here are the numbers:
300 WSM, 125 gr BT(bc .366) @ 3800 fps
1000 yard retained energy.......569 ft/lbs
1000 yard retained velocity.....1431 ft/lbs
1000 yard windage...............91"
1000 yard drop..................-198"
Retianed energy is 60 ft/lbs less then the 22-250 AI. Retained velocity is nearly 250 fps less then the little 22-250 AI at 1K.
The 300 WSM will have 30" more wind drift at this range.
I will admit that the 300 WSM will have about a foot less drop at 1000 yards but again, this is not worth comparing as bullet drop really is not a determining factor in choosing a long range round.
Anyway, no one has ever said to my knowledge that the bullets you mentioned WILL NOT WORK past 500 yards. I feel that many on this board have done their best to try to stear you in the right direction because many of us have been where you are and thought as you did but have since learned much since that time and know better.
You may have to go through that as well to learn what many have already learned. We are just trying to save you the large amount of money you will have to spend to learn this lesson the hard way but if thats what needs to be done then thats what needs to happen.
Many on this board have tested all the rounds you have mentioned including myself. I have compared 40 gr BTs in the 223 at 3800 fps to 80 gr VLDs at 2750 fps and at long range the heavy bullets make it MUCH easier to hit consistantly.
I have tested the 55 gr BTs in the 220 swift, 22-250 AI and 22-6mm AI and also tested the 80 and 100 gr bullets in them as well and there is simply no comparision as far as making consistant hits at long range. The heavy pills win hands down.
In the 6-284, I have tested the 55, 70, 80 and 95 gr Ballistic tips at their highest possible velocities in a 30" barrel compared to the 105 gr A-Max and 107 gr SMK and again, no light bullet will hold a candle to the heavier pills in any catagory as far as taking small game at long range in the big 6mm.
We have all tested the high velocity idea in the big 30 cal magnums as well, many MUCH Larger then the 300 WSM and the idea simply does not compare in any way to the higher BC bullets at lower velocities.
We are not saying a Ballistic Tip or V-Max will not work at ranges past 500 yards. What we are saying is that there is a degree of performance so far above those bullets its hardly worth comparing the two different types of loads. It has been tested time and time again and in every case, every case that I know of when a shooter honestly tested a high velocity, low BC load against a moderate velocity high BC load, in every case they went with the modetate velocity high BC load for long range shooting for one reason,
Its easier to hit at long range with these loads!!!
This is your call, do what you like and what you think will work but many on this board are just trying to point you in the right direction.
Every so often someone comes on here saying exactly what you say and within a year or so, that same person is usually the ones replying to the next guy that brings up this topic to go with the slower high BC bullets. And in many cases, that new guy will also have to learn the lesson for themselves.
So, please do what you think will work best but in my professional opinion, you are dreaming if you think you will get 4K with a 300 WSM and a 125 gr Ballistic Tip with safe pressures and decent case life but I have been proven wrong before.
Please be sure to test your results so we can all see this wonder of a rifle. I think you may be suprised at what you get in the finished product. again, no doubt it will work but most on here want the best they can get for the job at hand.
To put it bluntly, you are heading in the wrong direction and we just want to help you before you write the check and figure out you will have to spend more $$ to get what you really want in the end.
Your comments that the Ballistic Tips in 22 cal work very well at 1000 yards tells volumes of your knowledge base. This is not a flame at you or your shooting skills, just that it bring up questions on if you have actually put a bullet on game at this range with these bullets to see what they actually do or are you punching paper on a calm day or are you just reading numbers off a ballistic program????
They do not perform well on game at ranges from 800 to 1000 yards. They can kill small game but they are NOT reliable performance at these kind of ranges unless you get head shots. I personally feel any caliber of 6mm or smaller is marginal on game the size of chucks out at 1000 yards. I know this because I have hammers many chucks with solid hits that simply walked to their dens for a slow death.
There is ALOT of experience and knowledge on this board, to be so "in your face" is not a wise thing to do unless you have some hard numbers to back up your comments and theories. All it does is make most of the guys on here not want to offer any help with your projects and that will hurt only you in the long run.
Just a friendly tip.
Kirby Allen(50)
