Baffled with POI Change!

Horniac

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
20
Location
Norcal
I was hoping some of you experienced shooters on here would be able to help me with a problem I encountered with my gun that has me baffled as follows;

I had a rifle built in 26 Nosler. I have a Huskemah Blue Diamond 5x20 scope on it with a turret built for the 140 gr Accubond. Because our state is outlawing lead bullets, I am switching to copper. However I was unable to find any factory ammo that I could readily purchase with a copper bullet so I turned to a company that custom loads ammo. They had worked up a load in a Fierce 26 utilizing the Barnes 127 gr LRX BT and found the tightest groups at a MV of 3393 fps so I ordered 4 boxes to try out in my gun. They actually grouped better than the Accubonds. So I re-zeroed to be dead on at 200 yards and shot it out to 300 yards on my first range day. The next time to the range after entering the profile in my Sig Sauer Kilo 2400 ABS I shot the 500 meter range and was consistently knocking over the steel sheep, pigs, etc between 200 meters and 500 meters. Out to that range the turret yardage markings were still good though I was getting the output from the Kilo in MOA and counting clicks. I thought all was good and so with the 12/31/17 deadline for receiving on-line ammo in CA (don't get me started) I bought another 4 boxes so I would have it for future hunts.

Here is where the problem started. On a hunt two weeks later I had an animal broadside at 350 yards and completely missed and missed him again going away at 450. I was at a loss as to why I had completely missed as to I never fell on the hunt, bumped my scope, etc. Once home, I went back to the range and now I couldn't hit anything between 300 and 500 meters. I was by myself but shot video through my phone scope and it appeared I was hitting consistently way low. Another shooter came over and spotted for me and confirmed I was way low. When I explained how I got to this point he suggested I check the scope tracking with a Collimator. He said if the scope was tracking erratically you would see the grid in the Collimater appear to jump all over as you dialed the turret up and down. Appreciative of the advice and hoping that this would be my problem, I left the range and went home and checked the tracking through my Collimator. All appeared in order. In addition I checked the torque on all the action screws, rings, etc. but didn't find anything out of wack. Back to the range I went and shot my first group at 200 yards. The group was 4 MOA low. I re-zeroed accordingly and shot it out to 300 yards going back and forth on the turret between my 200 and 300 yard target to see if there were any changes in the point of impact. It all seemed good now.

So now I have an explanation as to why I most likely missed on my hunt, but have no explanation as to what caused my point of impact to change by 4 MOA so I have lost all confidence in the gun until I can find a plausible reason. I was hoping to get some input from you experienced shooters on what might of have caused this as the only things I can come up with are as follows; 1. the turret somehow hung or something but then tracked normally again after misaligning by 4 MOA or 12 clicks on my scope (I don't know if this is even possible). 2. the turret somehow loosened and was set back down on a different yardage (though I don't see how as it seems you have to basically take the screw completely out to raise the turret to set it back down) 3. unbeknownst to me the scope was somehow banged or jarred to move the point of impact 4. barrel fouling changed the pressure and therefore the group point of impact but this seems unlikely to me based on the amount of point of impact shift. Note I didn't clean the bore between any of the sessions or before my hunt.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/help in troubleshooting my problem...

Horniac
 
I had my rifle sighted in at 200 yards and it was about 1/2" low. I moved the scope up 2 clicks, The whole group went up 8". So I moved it down 2 clicks to see if it went back to the original zero and it did not. I had to move it down the full 32 clicks to get it back where it was to start with.
I removed the scope and sent it in and had it checked. They said there was nothing wrong. But I know it was the scope. I think something internal was hung up and when I made the adjustment it let loose.
Could be the same thing with yours even if you didn't make an adjustment.
 
I had my rifle sighted in at 200 yards and it was about 1/2" low. I moved the scope up 2 clicks, The whole group went up 8".
Just wondering, what size group did you shoot at 200 so that you could tell you were 1/2" low? I think that if my group was small enough to tell that I was 1/2" low at 200, I wouldn't touch a thing, but that's just me.
 
I was hoping some of you experienced shooters on here would be able to help me with a problem I encountered with my gun that has me baffled as follows;

I had a rifle built in 26 Nosler. I have a Huskemah Blue Diamond 5x20 scope on it with a turret built for the 140 gr Accubond. Because our state is outlawing lead bullets, I am switching to copper. However I was unable to find any factory ammo that I could readily purchase with a copper bullet so I turned to a company that custom loads ammo. They had worked up a load in a Fierce 26 utilizing the Barnes 127 gr LRX BT and found the tightest groups at a MV of 3393 fps so I ordered 4 boxes to try out in my gun. They actually grouped better than the Accubonds. So I re-zeroed to be dead on at 200 yards and shot it out to 300 yards on my first range day. The next time to the range after entering the profile in my Sig Sauer Kilo 2400 ABS I shot the 500 meter range and was consistently knocking over the steel sheep, pigs, etc between 200 meters and 500 meters. Out to that range the turret yardage markings were still good though I was getting the output from the Kilo in MOA and counting clicks. I thought all was good and so with the 12/31/17 deadline for receiving on-line ammo in CA (don't get me started) I bought another 4 boxes so I would have it for future hunts.

Here is where the problem started. On a hunt two weeks later I had an animal broadside at 350 yards and completely missed and missed him again going away at 450. I was at a loss as to why I had completely missed as to I never fell on the hunt, bumped my scope, etc. Once home, I went back to the range and now I couldn't hit anything between 300 and 500 meters. I was by myself but shot video through my phone scope and it appeared I was hitting consistently way low. Another shooter came over and spotted for me and confirmed I was way low. When I explained how I got to this point he suggested I check the scope tracking with a Collimator. He said if the scope was tracking erratically you would see the grid in the Collimater appear to jump all over as you dialed the turret up and down. Appreciative of the advice and hoping that this would be my problem, I left the range and went home and checked the tracking through my Collimator. All appeared in order. In addition I checked the torque on all the action screws, rings, etc. but didn't find anything out of wack. Back to the range I went and shot my first group at 200 yards. The group was 4 MOA low. I re-zeroed accordingly and shot it out to 300 yards going back and forth on the turret between my 200 and 300 yard target to see if there were any changes in the point of impact. It all seemed good now.

So now I have an explanation as to why I most likely missed on my hunt, but have no explanation as to what caused my point of impact to change by 4 MOA so I have lost all confidence in the gun until I can find a plausible reason. I was hoping to get some input from you experienced shooters on what might of have caused this as the only things I can come up with are as follows; 1. the turret somehow hung or something but then tracked normally again after misaligning by 4 MOA or 12 clicks on my scope (I don't know if this is even possible). 2. the turret somehow loosened and was set back down on a different yardage (though I don't see how as it seems you have to basically take the screw completely out to raise the turret to set it back down) 3. unbeknownst to me the scope was somehow banged or jarred to move the point of impact 4. barrel fouling changed the pressure and therefore the group point of impact but this seems unlikely to me based on the amount of point of impact shift. Note I didn't clean the bore between any of the sessions or before my hunt.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/help in troubleshooting my problem...

Horniac

I assume after the initial sight in you slipped the turrets to zero?

I had a brand new Leupold Mark 8 ($4000) stick the first time the turrets were adjusted. I kept adjusting but the POI never changed. Finally it broke loose and seemed to work normally. Leupold said sometimes they get stuck...great!
 
I noticed in your post you stated you were in meters, yet you stated yards on the hunt. Any chance you had those causing you a problem along with a possible difference in the ammo you were used to using?? 350 meters is a lot different than 350 yards and depending on what you were looking at in your ballistic solver.
 
Just wondering, what size group did you shoot at 200 so that you could tell you were 1/2" low? I think that if my group was small enough to tell that I was 1/2" low at 200, I wouldn't touch a thing, but that's just me.

The rifle is a 1/2" moa rifle so at 200 yards the 3 shot 1" group was averaging 1/2" low.
Just trying to make it perfect. Isn't that what this is all about?
But chances are that if something was stuck internally, it would have let loose eventually and did what happened to the OP.
 
Did you by chance verify the velocity with through a chronograph with the separate boxes? I think that is where I would start first.
Thanks for the input guys. I thought it might possibly be related to the ammo but unfortunately I do not have a chronograph to double check this possibility. I guess I could shoot a couple of rounds from each box to check this theory. One thing I did do though (now that I am thinking about it again) was when I was low at the 500M range I did send a 140 AccuBond down range at 250M and it had the same low POI so that's why I think it is related to my scope. I also used the muzzle velocity truing tool in my ballistic app and entered -8" at 200 yards and it gave me an error and it would not compute...

Horniac
 
I assume after the initial sight in you slipped the turrets to zero?

I had a brand new Leupold Mark 8 ($4000) stick the first time the turrets were adjusted. I kept adjusting but the POI never changed. Finally it broke loose and seemed to work normally. Leupold said sometimes they get stuck...great!
WalksLikeADeer thanks for your input! Yes, my gun was zeroed at 200 yards and I set the turret to 200 yards and it was dialing well out to 500M and back to 200M before my problem occurred on my hunt. Wow that is an expensive scope to have that happen to - that doesn't give a guy much confidence in your scope if your turret can randomly hang like that...

Horniac
 
I noticed in your post you stated you were in meters, yet you stated yards on the hunt. Any chance you had those causing you a problem along with a possible difference in the ammo you were used to using?? 350 meters is a lot different than 350 yards and depending on what you were looking at in your ballistic solver.
Rwreter thanks for your input. My Kilo was ranging in yards both at the range and on the hunt so even though I was shooting 500M I was dialing for roughly 547 yards...

Horniac
 
Really sounds like you bumped the scope somehow from the time you were at the range to when you were hunting. With a 200 yd zero, there is no way you should be 4 minutes low at 350. Even if one box of ammo is 100 fps slower it wont put you 4 minutes low. Take it to the range again and run it repeatedly back and forth between your 200 yd zero and 500 yd elevation maybe for 20 rounds or so. If you continually hit the targets then it likely got bumped. If for some reason it doesnt repeat, then you have an issue with the scope. I got my 26 out yesterday for the second range session. Shooting 120 E-tips over Retumbo. Three 5 shot groups were 0.7, 0.9 and 0.9 MOA. May give it a shot if the factory ammo doesnt work out for you.
 
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