Bad bedding porn

[Dr. Vette]

So we've all gotten used to seeing NesikaChad's wonderful bedding jobs. You start to wonder what kind of work is put out by other "gunsmiths" out there.

Today I received in a rifle with a Bell & Carlson stock. In talking with the previous owner it allegedly had been bedded by his local gunsmith, but it didn't seem to improve at all after the work was done. In fact, he brought it back to have him "add back" the pressure pad near the end of the stock to see if it would help; it did not. It was very good to start with, but didn't go from "very good" to "Great." So, he sold it.

So I pull the stock off the rifle and this is what I see:







No, I could not believe it either.
Click on the pics to get to larger photos - not that you want to see a bigger pic of anything this gruesome.

My questions are:

1. What is this stuff? It almost seems like Gorilla Glue.
2. How do I remove it? I've used a small straight screwdriver and can chip off some of it. It is not "completely" hard. However I'd love to know if there is something other than scraping or a Dremel that will clean it up.
3. I know that the Devcon 10110 is grayish in color. Is there a Devcon that is tan? Another one of my rifles with the same color stock has a tan bedding material that is really close in shade to the stock (see pic below) and I'd love to use that rather than gray, if possible. I "think" I saw a picture by NesikaChad on another forum that showed the tan color, but anyone is welcome to let me know.

Thanks for any insight you may have.

Tan bedding I'd like to copy:

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

OMG *** thats nuts I would be so mad!

 

[Skimbleshanks]

Who ever did that must not have known that you want to make contact between the stock and action/barrel more consistent not less. I've only bedded one stock my self and I ended up with one small air bubble but I took my time and am pleased with what I was able to accomplish. If I had payed money for that to be done it would be back in my pocket or going to a hospitals coffers real quick.

 

[Dr. Vette]

OMG *** thats nuts I would be so mad!

Thankfully I didn't pay the smith, and I bought the rifle at a good price.
Now I'd like to fix it, and do it right.

Oh, and there is a bit of this shytte on the outside of the stock too. I removed some, but a couple of areas are so thin I'm afraid of hurting the tan paint.

Any idea what this stuff is, how to remove it, and what that nice tan stuff is on the other stock?

 

[WesB]

I think the gunsmith's name was Ray Charles

 

[Fitch]

That's really gross.

If it was here, I'd stick it in the mill and cut the stuff out. If you don't have access to a mill, it's going to be a long night with a face mask and a dremel.

I''ve never seen Devcon 10110 in any color other than dark gray. There is an old saying - "A good horse is never a bad color." Might extend that thought to bedding material.

Fitch

 

[NesikaChad]

2. How do I remove it?

Just a thought

 

[Dr. Vette]

OK, with a Dremel and a shop vac I was able to remove most of it. I'll have to go back with a smaller tip to do the nooks and crannies.

The previous "gunsmith" must have Dremeled out some of the edge, as there was not paint between most of the material and the stock. I'm now down to the "hard foam" that must constitute most of the material of a B&C stock.

So Chad, what material is used in this picture below? Devcon HVAC? And is that different than 10110?
Or do you have any clue what is in the bottom picture of my original post?

(If you don't want to say, please PM me).

 

[sp6x6]

Your stock, taking a wild guess looked like it could have been done with 5 min epoxy, cream color. I use it alot to f ix holes in travertine tile or use stain and clear and fill holes in hardwood furniture or knot holes, works great on knot holes

 

[Chas1]

I've used a woodcarving chisel a 1" to 1 1/2" bent gouge does well to remove but be careful not to dig into the wood.

 

[NesikaChad]

Chas,

A good resin system used to bed a rifle should have the following:

1. A long pot life or "open clamp time"
2. A high shore hardness
3. Minimal shrinkage
4. High resistance to acids/alkalies
5. Low to medium viscosity prior to curing
6. High compression strength
7. High shear strength
8. A relatively high percentage of solids
9. Easy to mix, I prefer 1:1 volume ratios over having to weigh everything out as that gets to be a pain in the rear end
10. Free machining once cured

The most important thing is picking one type and sticking with it. It's the ONLY way to learn all its quirks and habits. Over time you'll learn to pay attention to things like ambient temp and humidity as they have a big influence on curing.

I used to use an Acraglass concoction and it worked great for a number of years. We had sky lights in the shop in CO and I was bedding a gun one afternoon and the sun cooked my batch as it sat piled on my glass plate. Experience is never cheap! What a mess! I had to clean out the inlet, machine the fungus out, and then start all over. At least I didn't have it on the receiver yet!

That taught me the lesson I still use to this day. Keep the stuff spread out thin prior to applying to the action/stock. I use a big glass plate and spread the stuff out super thin once its all mixed up. It can't make any heat that way and this increases your work time.

NEVER cut a resin with acetone or alky in order to reduce viscosity. It can really screw up the properties of the material. Make it weaker, brittle, etc.

Practice, practice, practice and have your prep work done well in advance of mixing. it should be the last thing you do.

Good luck.

Chad

 

[Dr. Vette]

Chad,

Although it was not Chas who asked, my assumption then is that you're not going to tell me what the tan material is you used in that picture above?

You had a great looooong thread on bedding on another forum in 2007, and I've copied that thread to help me (and borrowed the picture above from there too).

 

[Chas1]

Good info Chad, thanks for sharing.

 

[blackbrush]

Since the bloke who did Dr Vette's to-be-gun was not a gunsmith and no names have been wiped, it reminds me of one of my "wonderful learning experiences."

When I started shooting I didn't know which end of the gun you were supposed to put the chewing gum in...all I did was parrot what I heard others rattle off.

"Pillar bedded, bedded action, lap the lugs..." blah, blah, blah.

So I took my Rem 700, 708 to this guy's shop and we go over everything, what I want done (I still didn't have a clue what any of the stuff I was saying meant) and this guy takes the rifle and goes to work.

Hyperspace a couple of months and I get my rifle back. He did frankly admit he did not feel he eeked out the accuracy he was intending. I was understanding, as at that time I was shooting factory ammo...and it wasn't THAT bad.

Hyperspace forward a couple of years and this 708 is in the back of my gun safe and most of this jargon was not so foreign and it was not like sipping water out of a fire hose. I wondered what things looked like, the bedding, etc.

Pulled it out and off with the stock and I could do nothing else except break out in a huge continuous belly laugh.

No pillars.

The bedding job was a thin layer (.004-.008") of thumb smeared glass bedding over both screw holes.

Pulled the bolt off. About 25-35% lug contact on bolt locking lugs.

As the old saying goes, "Nothing is learned from the second kick of a mule." It is a true pleasure to learn and read from those on this sight who have so much character, confidence, experience and utter love for machining and smithing.

I thank each and everyone of you that take the time to share and teach.

Wally