Make it hunting not killing
AZ bans trail cameras
- Thread starter Raudy707
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Make it hunting not killing
Define Fair Chase? Hunt like our grandfather? Maybe 30-06 factory ammo, lucky to hit anything at 200 yards? Some folks do not think standing off 500-1,000 yards with range finder, kestrel, ballistics app, high BC bullets, spotter snd so on as Fair Chase. So let's be careful on what should be defined as Fair Chase.
I think that's an evolving term, "fair chase". Nobody's right or wrong until laws or regulations are passed defining it. Human nature is to take everything to the extreme. The purists might say long bow is fair chase or another might feel lever action iron sights only. With the innovations of better optics, bullets, and ballistic apps we find ourselves shooting a half mile and more at animals. Is that fair chase? With all the conflicts and discussions it's pushing the envelope. But I'm sure we will keep going with smart rifles, scopes and bullets. Until we get reigned in by laws, guaranteed people will keep stretching the boundaries. Each and every individual has their own personal fair chase term and code of ethics. So for now, one group can't admonish another or call them wrong so long as it is legal. We can discuss and debate the topics but in the end I've never seen a person swayed from their original beliefs and or traditions. Legislation make people follow rules, not the opinions of others.
My biggest concern is that Fair Chase will be defined by a law by wildlife departments or worse by the ballot box. In MI doves cannot be hunted not because DNR didn't want to but by ballot. We need to be really careful and frankly more vocal in protecting our hunting heritage lest the term Fair Chase will be totally unrecognizable to us in the future.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
Most animal travel at night because of to much pressure by to many hunter or people out in the bush. They do come into watering holes. If you have seen 15 to 20 trail cams, it must be close to the road, and close to the city. Like I said I have watch the animals come in during the day to water with trail cam, and it didn't create any problem. It didn't spook the animals with me being in 40yds from the water hole. I never heard loud noises coming from trail cam either. Where I hunt at I don't hardly see many body either, unless it on a road. Those people are better know as road hunters. Hunting with a guide. That guide has taken the time to scout out the areas he or she is going to set you up at. So you can be lead to an area to shot your game at. I have used drop camps, still hunted on my own. I mostly hunt on my own. The only time I have used a guide is in Africa. It's required and not very safe either without a guide. Especially bow hunting, you can take your time in trying to figure out what's not out there. Az has about a 30 day bow hunting season starting at about 1st of the year and ends on about the end of January of each year. Stopping trail cam is like having Biden as your team leader.
Have you ever hunted Az? You're wrong about the bow season as well as many other statements you just made in your last post.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
Yes for years. That's bull. You need to study the 2021-22 regulation. There is several units that hunting starts on the 1st of January and ends on the last day of January. I guess you can't read. to help you along. Go AZ hunting regulation on page 35 and read. Units 15A-15D, 17B, 18A,& B, 19A, 20B, 20C, 21,22,24A,24B,25M,26M,28,30A,30B,31,32,34A & B, 35A & B, 36A-C, 37B thru 45C. Some are special units and requirement. Hunting season starts on January 1st & ends on January 31st. I think that about covers it. You live in AZ and it appears you don't read the regs. There is several other seasons too, but I don't hunt them. I've been hunting for 63 years now, with 1 year hunting MAN. In 9 different states, and several times.
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Lol, you have not a clue what you're talking about and are very experienced in spreading wrong information. There 4 different sets of regulations that come out for the different seasons. Bow hunting in Az is year around my friend. Archery Deer season starts for the calendar year on Jan 1 and runs until Jan 31, it then starts again in August in most units for 2 weeks, we also have some special draw hunts here for numerous fall hunts for the trophy units up by the Kaibab, then it finishes the year during the rut for Coues Whitetail and Mule deer for the last 3 weeks of December and continues right into January next year again, some of the longest and best archery seasons in the country. Archery Javelina starts in February and runs for 2 weeks, then we have turkey that is in the spring along with Bear, oh wait, we then have a fall bear Archery hunt. We also have Antelope archery in August and then we have, did I mention Elk, which starts sometime usually in the first 2 weeks of September, then again inOctober for Cow elk, and then a November Elk bull hunt. During the fall hunts we also have numerous opportunities for Javelina during the fall season. I expect you've hunted here NOT very often as it's quite obvious you have not a clue what you're talking about with regards to "the regulations" you mention for my state of residence.
With regards to the Cams, I suggest you educate yourself to the issues that present us here in Az. TRAIL CAMS ISSUE EXIST ON WATER HOLES, I experienced over 25 cams on a waterhole I hunted in unit 9 in 2019, get real man, that's not right. Az has some of the very best managed public land hunting in the country. We have VERY LITTLE private property to worry about for hunting. AzGFD is doing a great job keeping everything in order for the public land fair chase hunter. No trail cams within a 1/4 of a mile of water and no cams during the season sounds good to me. If you have not witnessed the issues we have with the cams how can you sit here and preach to us about it?
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I was against the ban. My cameras don't catch people on them and I don't put them on water
I understand areas up north have issues with people constantly running in and out of water sources to check cams during all 24hrs of the day. I just would have liked to see the commission address those areas before making a statewide law.
I understand areas up north have issues with people constantly running in and out of water sources to check cams during all 24hrs of the day. I just would have liked to see the commission address those areas before making a statewide law.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
That part of the problem. Far to many season over the year. I am well aware of how many bow hunting season there is in AZ. Where did Javelina, Elk, and a few others come in. As I stated I hunt in January for deer. As far as pressure in Az in my estimation is way to much. The deer don't have much of a rest with all the season for deer. Bow hunting is just part of the hunting seasons there in Az. Being an out of stater getting an elk tag is almost impossible. I stop putting in of points a few years ago. A waste of time and money at my age. I stated that Az has a 30 day season in January. I didn't go into all the other seasons during the year. Use of trail cam is really in question. If I find someplace that has 15 to 20 trail cam's I won't be back there again. The none hunters were complaining about the trail cams. They don't pay anything to go into the BLM and NF to wonder around. The hunter does. The hunter does by licenses fees. I haven't looked in awhile at Licenses, and bow tag. If I remember correctly it was over $360.00 for the year. For 2 weeks that about $25.00 per day. I didn't complain about the trail cam, I accepted that as a part of life. I was after the Gray ghost, and didn't shoot anything, because I didn't see a buck that I wanted to take. I saw plenty of deer, but not the size I was looking for. I don't hunt to just shoot any legal deer that comes along. Bend there and done that. I am picky on what I shoot now, and have been for a great many years. So I go home with an unfilled tag, and I don't have a problem with that.
Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
At the 13:30 minute mark, it gets to the nuts and bolts of how this came into commission oversight. Posted, Jan 2021.
Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
Another article regarding the issue.
tucson.com
Arizona wildlife commission considers ban on remote cameras for hunting
Arizona hunters would no longer be allowed to use motion-activated trail cameras to stalk game under a new rule proposed by state wildlife regulators.
tucson.com
Raudy707 is spot on. So are most on this forum. Even though the commission voted to completely ban game cams effective Jan 2022 this really is a small issue in the grand scheme of things for AZ hunters. If its legal per game and fish then it is fair chase. After that it comes down to limits we as individuals place on ourselves. Being a traditional bowhunter, and barebow compound shooter I have never shot any big game animal over 35 yards. My choice, not yours and that's the way it should be. Hunting can be a very personal pursuit. As far as cams go I am against them for many of the same reasons the commission listed. If you have an opportunity listen to the committee meeting in its entirety. The only ones in my opinion that are going to be hurt are the outfitters as we know there are extremely wealthy people out there paying 5 to 6 figures for animals. Cam photos get clients thirsting for a particular animal and out comes the check book. If you are a blue collar guy or gal and cams are helping you routinely take 380 bulls and 200 inch bucks then I can see where this could be a problem. The biggest concern I have as far as the future of hunting in this state, is the fact that overall we are better at killing animals than we use to be. Technology and knowledge across all platforms. As an an archer do I like seeing animals shot at 70,80 or a 100 yards? Its legal. That's a hunters choice. The equipment out there and video says its doable. They project over 10 million people in this state if not 15 in the not to distant future. This years archery deer tags have been significantly reduced. There are two week seasons where there was once 6. There are late season hunts that are completely gone. I think when you look at politics and increased success in the field that if we do not make some adjustments; that soon we won't be hunting at all. Permit numbers will continue to shrink. So for me the cam ban is a good thing.
