Are high powered scopes really necessary for hunting?

[JungleBoogey]

Where I hunt I have only a few opportunities to shoot at game further than 350 to 400 yards... the area has too many trees and not enough clearings. My scopes are 3-9×40, 3-12x50 and 4-16x50. That's sufficient for my purposes and terrain but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't want to try taking game at twice that distance with a 25 power scope. Hell, target shooting at that distance would make me smile so go for what you can and leave the envy to me...

 

[Heavy]

I love the higher magnification, I like being able to place my shots as precise as I can.

 

[operator1]

The highest power scope I own is an ATACR 4-16x 44mm on my .300win, but for 44 years I carried a rem. 700 in .270 caliber. My only optic during that 44 year time frame was a 4x Leatherwood ARTII, also 44mm, or maybe 42mm-don't recall offhand. In that time frame I've taken truckloads of deer and elk, but I never had any trouble being able to see to shoot and kill what I was hunting in any light condition. The optics are so good on that scope that I've never needed or wanted more power, or bigger objective. My question to those of you with the big 56-60mm objectives, at say 6-25X or more is why do you think you need that much power? Ok, a little background, I worked at a facility for years as an Optical Parts Inspector. We made optics for all branches of the US military, and I carried the appropriate D.O.D. clearance to do this work. My job was to measure all properties associated with any optic, including prisms and infrared/other optics, and coating chart analysis, and to insure it met the required specs. Later, I moved into an area where I was involved with final/non-destructive test of laser range and FLIR systems. My point is that I know a little bit about optics, but the question was actually spawned by the fact that of all of the world's leading military snipers, I can find no higher power used than 15-16x, in calibers up to and including 50 cal. Granted, special teams may have higher power scopes, but am saying this is apparently the general rule, with most countries at 10x or under.
I will add that what the world's military snipers use had no bearing on my latest 3-15x44 purchase, however. I bought it because it's all I believe I need. Anyways, I have no desire to change anyone's mind, and you won't change mine either. Just curious what you scope you guys hunt with and why? This question is directed at long range and ELR hunting applications, not paper punching-thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Not an answer to the question. I have had Leatherwood scopes from the arts to an 8-32 Leatherwood. I like them but rarely ever see them talked about. How do you like the arts and Leatherwood in general?

 

[Joefrazell]

15 or 16x is good enough for much further then I'll ever shoot an animal

 

[cajun]

I was reminded this weekend of the importance of having a large objective diameter for daylight and dark thirty. I have an older sako rifle with a 3x9 x 40 zeiss .At dark thirty I had a large body deer in my shooting lane but I had to dial back to 6 power just to see the deer but could not see horns. With my vortex pst 50 mm I can see at dark thirty at 10-12 power and see horns. The glass on the zeiss is better than the vortex but the larger objective on the vortex makes a big difference in low light.

 

[nmbarta]

I like the HP analogy, you don't always need 500HP, but it's nice to have it on tap when you want it. If you ever get in a 500HP truck that istn't full of cheap parts that dont' hold up, but a real 500HP machine, you'll never be happy with 4 banger Toyota again!!!
That said, a 4 banger toyota will get to most places a 500HP work horse will get, it's just not as much fun!!!
For most hunting situations, I don't go past 20X. It's nice to have some glass on your rifle that eliminates the need for a spotting scope when your packing a few miles, something that gives you a little more confidence that your pulling the trigger on something you want to kill.
Multiple uses for the tools on hand, a good 20x-25X scope can double as a spotter coupled with some good bino's that you just want a little more verification on what your shooting at.
Are they necessary? Not for most. Most don't do what we do here.

 

[shaughn]

I had a pair of 8x30 Huet binoculars that traveled the world with me for many years..they were artillery binoculars with the ranging reticle...couldn't take them to Germany ... but they went everywhere else...they were damaged and were sold off for parts..now I have a pair of 7x50 Tasco offshore with ranging reticle and though it can get heavy...besides having enough gear for 3 days should weather go bad ... I carry them and a Bushnell spotting scope...if I am out and about I find a perfect hide spot and do most of my scouting/observing by bouncing between the spotter and bino...

I generally only use the rifle scope when I am settling in to make that final determination..is it big enough...angle good...no animal or hunter in close proximity...read the wind... range with the reticle...L-rangfinders sometimes pick up a reflective surface short of what you are actually intending to range so double checking has saved my shot more than once..

With a big objective lens and lots of power in a quality optic..of course..just makes it that much easier and extends your opportunities...

 

[JemezDave]

Not an answer to the question. I have had Leatherwood scopes from the arts to an 8-32 Leatherwood. I like them but rarely ever see them talked about. How do you like the arts and Leatherwood in general?

I've absolutely love mine, but it was built a long time ago. Works well for midrange, excellent optics, reliable and it can take a beating. I have no idea what the current ones are like. For ranging deer with accuracy, I would say there is no other scope that compares with it that I know of even today. There are many times when you only get a short window of opportunity to make one shot count. It's in that scenario that it is unsurpassed. I can get a bullet in the air within 10 seconds if I had to guess. I've had scenarios like that many times. It is not a viable long range option though at least the one I have.

 

[JemezDave]

I was reminded this weekend of the importance of having a large objective diameter for daylight and dark thirty. I have an older sako rifle with a 3x9 x 40 zeiss .At dark thirty I had a large body deer in my shooting lane but I had to dial back to 6 power just to see the deer but could not see horns. With my vortex pst 50 mm I can see at dark thirty at 10-12 power and see horns. The glass on the zeiss is better than the vortex but the larger objective on the vortex makes a big difference in low light.

Heavily wooded areas compound things. I'd have at least a 50mm in that case. I hunt more open areas where remaining light filters thru pretty well

 

[Allen Kitts]

IMO having the high power is nice when you have the time to use it. I generally shoot between 12-14 power at most distances up to 600 yards on animals just because it is to hard to keep the reticle still when I am at 22 power shooting off the sticks. If I have a chance to lay down and get into the prone position then I shoot at 22 power on the longer stuff. I have (2) Nightforce scopes in the 5.5-22x50 that I just love but both on are on long range rifles. I have a 3-18 Leupold VX6HD on the rifle I carry when I am in the timber.

 

[del2les]

Since this is a Long Range Hunting forum, Often, I am surprised by post from hunters who never hunt/shoot long range.

During those 44 yrs with only a 4x scope, what would you say your longest shoot on game was? Deer, coyote etc?

Going from a 4 to 15/16x is a substantial leap in mag (4x) so you are already in the high power range. However, I understand your question about 24/25x scope potential. I have shot many 1,000 yd targets with a 10x and even a 3x9 set on 9x, but why when I can turn the ring and make a more precise shot with a 16 or 24x in good glass?

After all, here we practice "long range" shooting, and for many of us, that "starts" past the half-mile mark.

Your latest scope magnification will serve you far better than 4x, but only if the ranges and game size require it. P-dogs at 400 strain single digit scopes. Enjoy

 

[C L M]

Very interesting reviews. I have to say it depends. I have a 6-24x50 and if I come into an open field I will zoom it in. In the woods I will adjust it for the area.

 

[WildRose]

In context of LRH, which is this forum's theme; yes.
There was a guy from Palmer AK on this forum in the early days, and the discussion was about taking Moose at over 1,000yds with rifle shot off a tripod mount base. Then came the .338 Edge days and talk was about Elk being shot across Western canyons from portable shooting bench setups.

Gonna reliably take game at 1000+ yds? Best have some optical gain to help dope the wind and all the clarity you can get. Same w/shooting for tiny groups at a mile plus... But for general hunting? Unless you're doing beanfield shoots from your apt-like stand with it's solar powered conveniences, then the weight and mass of the Great Glass Scopes for LR is a negative.

All depends on your terrain. Deep woods and arctic jungle (Southcentral AK) and you'd best have a 0-1x for fast response. The 1-6x Zeiss Dialyt is pretty good, but an older design which can be difficult to mount effectively. An illuminated reticle makes up for some short-comings, hashtag reticle enables hold-offs and over/under holds. The Leupold mk4 4.5-14x 50mm is great in all respects aside from it's big objective, but great clarity in shadows and lightweight at only 22oz.

Tactical design scopes bring a Lot to the hunter. Custom elevation dials to track your trajectory are a real benefit. Paint 'em if you wish; Krylon comes off easy. Weight and size are major considerations for the hunter on foot. In context of LRH, most rifles are pushing 12lbs with a heavy varmint barrel 26" or longer, with 17lbs being realistic for built LR guns. Add a 40oz scope and 1/2lb rail and rings to this and you're up to 15 or 20 lbs w/o ammo, slling, bipod, stock pack

Problem with using a traditional design hunting scope is lack of elevation unless used w/30moa gain base. Yeah, the 1-4x leupy has tons of movement, but nobody dials a 1-4x. The older traditional leupys might have 50moa, but once zeroed, maybe only still have 20moa usable, or even less. Same goes for the traditional scopes from other makers.

Then there's the hunting rifle itself and its options for scope mounting. Win 70, Rem 700, & Savage have the most options. The Win 70 was The Standard platform for Palma and other NRA longrange events back in the day. Steyr and Sako/Tikka are somewhat hindered by their integral mount designs. Near Mfg has the most options for variety of rifle platforms.

For versatility and proven effectiveness, pretty hard to beat the mk4 gear, esp/w their custom shop turret availability.

Some really good points in your post and those just above.

I'll add this.

The higher the magnification the more you pick up and are likely to then end up fighting every little minute movement, even your own heartbeat. This can easily get to the point it has you magnifying those errors by tensing up and trying to fight them.

Most of the game I shoot is shot between 300-750 yds occasionally stretching out to a thousand or just beyond and even on something as small as coyotes and bobcats I find my VX6 3-18x50's and 4-24x52's to be more than adequate.

It's easy, particularly in a crowd like this to get hung up on always going for the bigger, better, badder, faster, newest, highest BC yada, yada on the market but particularly when it comes to scope magnification it's real easy to go way overboard and actually end up hurting yourself rather than helping.

I've gone out expecting a LR situation many times with my older 6-24x's or higher magnificatio scopes and suddenly found myself needing to be able to shoot at 30-75yds where the bottom magnification is so high and so full of boar, buck etc that I cannot get the shot off because it's like looking at them through a microscope.

 

[memtb]

WildRose, Very good post! Logic and common sense, has very little impact upon reality! memtb