Anyone still prefer Barnes?

[8x68s]

I have used a wide assortment of calibers in Barnes from TSX to LRX. All work well and for some rifles superbly.

 

[Calvin45]

I use the 100 grain ttsx in my .257 Weatherby loaded with IMR 7977 to a muzzle velocity of 3722 fps. Every deer I've shot dropped in its tracks from 180 to 413 yards. Excellent bullet!!

That's almost exactly what my .257 does with hbn treated Nosler ballistic tips and imr 7828. Nice!

Reformed 264 win brass, can't remember if it was 72 or 74 grains 7828ssc. Standard coal. Is a little warm, some cratering. 3720 fps

 

[dustbag]

127 LRX 6.5 Man-Bun
280 LRX 338 Rum

 

[jake545]

I run them in my 30hrt. 110gr ttsx at 2825fps is hell on whitetails in the eastern woods.

I have a few 110ttsx in .277 I'm going to try out in my 270win.

 

[Wedgy]

I'm in lead free California and have had to shoot the Barnes for a long time but have moved on to what I think are better bullets like Hammer and Cutting Edge. Both of these use a softer copper alloy than Barnes that has less engraving pressure and yields more velocity than a same weight Barnes hard alloy bullet. They also have totally different mode of operating where the front of the bullet breaks apart into several petals that radiate outwards like shrapnel after ~2" of penetration and will do great damage to other organs near the path of the bullet and often end up on the off side hide. The remaining flat nosed shank is about 70% weight and displaces tissue creating a large wound cavity and will almost always penetrate thru and exit creating another hole for blood loss. Hammers have a similar BC to Barnes and are almost immune to seating depth changes where the Barnes are and mostly seem to like at least 0.050 or more jump. CEB generally have a higher BC and the Lazers will expand down to 1,200fps. I have killed stacks of pigs and deer with the .30 cal 150 TTSX and always had the textbook mushroom with ~100% retention and rarely had and exit and my gf shoots the the 130TTSX at 3,300 and has never had an exist on 3 elk and a couple deer. Now switch to the 6.5 LRX 127 grain going 3,020fps and I have never recovered a single bullet and always had pencil exit holes with no blood in ~9 deer, 25 pigs, a bear, and 2 elk. All died because they were shot thru the vitals but somehow that 6.5mm bullet would never leave an exit bigger than caliber size hole. Very accurate though, longest kill with them was a coyote at 860 yards.
With the Hammers I have always gotten an acceptable exit wound that leaks blood. Picture is a cow I shot uphill quartering to me at 987 yards with a 227 Hammer Hunter. The blood on the snow is from an elk shot at 741 yards with a 7mm 143 grain HH that left a 2" exit hole and drained blood from both sides while he was still standing then dumped over dead. Badlands Bulldozers have a very high BC but use a hard copper like Barnes but if you see this .338 bullet that impacted at over 2,100 fps on an 882 yard bull it is the reason I shy away from the hard copper alloy. It is rumored that they may start using a softer copper in the future. but their 6.5mm 135 grain has a .700 G1, the .30 cal 175 grain with a .605, and the 6mm 100 grain comes in at .600 is very tempting for sure.
My gf still shoots the 130 grain TTSX in her 30'06 at 3,300 fps with great results on pigs, elk, and a huge body mule deer. But again no exits
on the .30 cal bullets which seems odd to me compared to my experience with the 6.5 bullets.
Post #76 is the 275 grain Bulldozer story on the .338 bullet;https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...-from-bc-to-terminal-ballistics.245696/page-6

 

[Calvin45]

I'm in lead free California and have had to shoot the Barnes for a long time but have moved on to what I think are better bullets like Hammer and Cutting Edge. Both of these use a softer copper alloy than Barnes that has less engraving pressure and yields more velocity than a same weight Barnes hard alloy bullet. They also have totally different mode of operating where the front of the bullet breaks apart into several petals that radiate outwards like shrapnel after ~2" of penetration and will do great damage to other organs near the path of the bullet and often end up on the off side hide. The remaining flat nosed shank is about 70% weight and displaces tissue creating a large wound cavity and will almost always penetrate thru and exit creating another hole for blood loss. Hammers have a similar BC to Barnes and are almost immune to seating depth changes where the Barnes are and mostly seem to like at least 0.050 or more jump. CEB generally have a higher BC and the Lazers will expand down to 1,200fps. I have killed stacks of pigs and deer with the .30 cal 150 TTSX and always had the textbook mushroom with ~100% retention and rarely had and exit and my gf shoots the the 130TTSX at 3,300 and has never had an exist on 3 elk and a couple deer. Now switch to the 6.5 LRX 127 grain going 3,020fps and I have never recovered a single bullet and always had pencil exit holes with no blood in ~9 deer, 25 pigs, a bear, and 2 elk. All died because they were shot thru the vitals but somehow that 6.5mm bullet would never leave an exit. Very accurate though, longest kill with them was a coyote at 860 yards.
With the Hammers I have always gotten an acceptable exit wound that leaks blood. Picture is a cow I shot uphill quartering to me at 987 yards with a 227 Hammer Hunter. The blood on the snow is from an elk shot at 741 yards with a 7mm 143 grain HH that left a 2" exit hole and drained blood from both sides while he was still standing then dumped over dead. Badlands Bulldozers have a very high BC but use a hard copper like Barnes but if you see this .338 bullet that impacted at over 2,100 fps on an 882 yard bull it is the reason I shy away from the hard copper alloy. It is rumored that they may start using a softer copper in the future. but their 6.5mm 135 grain has a .700 G1, the .30 cal 175 grain with a .605, and the 6mm 100 grain comes in at .600 is very tempting for sure.
My gf still shoots the 130 grain TTSX in her 30'06 at 3,300 fps with great results on pigs, elk, and a huge body mule deer. But again no exits
on the .30 cal bullets which seems odd to me compared to my experience with the 6.5 bullets.
Post #76 is the 275 grain Bulldozer story on the .338 bullet;https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...-from-bc-to-terminal-ballistics.245696/page-6
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I thought the Barnes was pure copper not an allow. I know the Nosler e tip and hornady gmx were gilding metal and hornady now has the cx instead for this reason

 

[bigngreen]

That's a fair answer for sure.

It's no disrespect to a nail if one opts to
Use a screw haha.

I just didn't get the "evolved" comment…compare a Barnes original or an old school x bullet to an lrx and somethings changed haha.

The evidence is in the explosion of copper bullet makers, Barnes had the market cornered, thee ONLY reason to shoot a Hammer or Badlands over a Barnes is performance. If your delivering price point, accuracy, BC, velocity and a non lead product you only need to deliver on game performance to be top dog, when you trust what bullets look like shot into a water trap more than guys giving you high volume real world results you loose!!

 

[bigngreen]

I thought the Barnes was pure copper not an allow. I know the Nosler e tip and hornady gmx were gilding metal and hornady now has the cx instead for this reason

Barnes, CEB, Hammer, Badlands are all real close in their composition BUT there is so much more to the metal than just it's basic chemistry that imparts different characteristics.
There was a post somewhere of the results of a spectrometer with the numbers that is quite interesting knowing how they all function.

 

[Wedgy]

Most copper bullets are made of electrical type copper wire, very hard, and there is only a few places where you can spec the alloy you want in the low volume bullet makers order. India and Mexico are the 2 that will. Who do you think wins ?

 

[Lee7588]

That's almost exactly what my .257 does with hbn treated Nosler ballistic tips and imr 7828. Nice!

Reformed 264 win brass, can't remember if it was 72 or 74 grains 7828ssc. Standard coal. Is a little warm, some cratering. 3720 fps

I run 72 grains of 7828ssc under 100 grain tax and I'm getting 3550 fps so my guess is you are using 74 grains

 

[FEENIX]

I thought the Barnes was pure copper not an allow. I know the Nosler e tip and hornady gmx were gilding metal and hornady now has the cx instead for this reason

See #637 of https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...mparison-to-other-bullet-types.283812/page-46

 

[fordy]

Gday calvi45
I look @ Barnes as part of the evolution of bullets we have today
Now the following may change due to some of the super fast twists that are getting tested so until all that data comes in we can only go off what we do as a whole today

Overall barnes kill pretty well if we keep a couple things in mind
Find out where the velocity window starts & finishes , low velocity impacts are more important to the majority especially here
Please don't listen to the companies as this is where people will get into trouble eventually as some are tugging the dogs chain on effectiveness down that low
& a c&c if your thinking that low would be my advice & then I don't like real low impacts & if one must a big caliber makes more sense to me

I'm being vague because I don't want to get into that pill vrs that as your asking about Barnes

If @ all possible you want a exit from the Barnes as if your catching it it's slowing / narrowing the wound channel down & the last 1/3 is basically useless if the pill dosent pencil
Here's one that had a pencil like wound
yet the pill under different resistances preformed way better ( yep same impact )

It's consistency & im yet to see a mushroom mono overall behave differently ( wound channel im talking )

Wound channels are the ones that are fascinating for me
& I'll state again on the whole Barnes are pretty good & will serve most ok just keep velocity up & try & aim for a exit as it's one of the keys I believe with monos especially
Where you find this is in the wound channel

On wounds a pill that many of you probably haven't used it's a Tarvas so I'm assuming I'm safe putting this pill up as a reference & was a interesting design & one of the best meplats you'll see ( I'll see if I can find mine I've only ever caught 2 )
& this meplat shows you what can be done if you get speed through the critter without stopping inside

This pill on impact basically holds the same wound channel all the way through the critter basically dosent shrink or taper ( slightly enlarged first 6 to 8 inches but nothing like Barnes / others & on this pill it's a extreme penertrator so you can follow that wound for a long way on some critters

The distance a critter travels from impact to tip is extremely consistent ( not ideal but consistent) regardless of shot angle yet the Barnes will impact to tip on the whole in a shorter distance but on a few angles /resistances like the pill I put up above you will get way better results out of the travas

So I'm one that the Barnes will kill no doubt especially if you keep speed up a bit & try & get a good resistance
But I'm there are better pills today that are showing better results so that's the way I spend my $ & I accept others are happy spending on Barnes in this case
So ea to their own
Stay safe shoot straight I'm back to my rabbit hole
Nice thread
Cheers