Anyone have luck with Accumark?

[Hired Gun]

To the best of my knowledge starting in 1995 the Mark 5 was made in US by Saco Defense in Saco, Maine and starting 1999 at Acrometal/ATEK in Brainerd, Minn. In 2011 Weatherby released an announcement that they were bringing production back to their company HQ in Paso Robles, Calif. After more than a few calls and speaking with their "gunsmith" I have determined that guy doesn't know anything that a real gunsmith should know. Teresa in the parts department knows way more about the rifles and how thy are made. I believe there rebarrel work is still being farmed out to a private smith.

The Saco Defense rifles had HS Precision stocks and Criterion barrels. After the move to ATEK they switched to Bell and Carlson stocks and later changed to a different manufacturer for their button rifles barrels. Any of the Accumark rifles are fine rifles in my book.

The only mod I found to really up the accuracy was to fully bed the front lug. It needs support under it. The factory trigger will adjust from 6 ounces up to over 4 pounds in the hands of a skilled trigger guy. So far I have found no one makes a better trigger for the Mark 5 than a tuned up Weatherby trigger.

MudRunner,
Before you go lapping that barrel with any sort of grit please try the following. Read Gordy's article on slugging and evaluating rifle bores. "EXTREME ACCURACY INSTITUTE" and "Gordy's Precision" Then slug the barrel. This is something we do on every barrel before we fit it and it is an eye opener. This will tell you if you truly have tight spots. They can be detected no other way without an airgauge. Then report back what you find.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I bought mine brand new in 2008, and it says "Made in USA" and "Paso Robles, CA" on it.

That's all I know.

 

[MudRunner2005]

To the best of my knowledge starting in 1995 the Mark 5 was made in US by Saco Defense in Saco, Maine and starting 1999 at Acrometal/ATEK in Brainerd, Minn. In 2011 Weatherby released an announcement that they were bringing production back to their company HQ in Paso Robles, Calif. After more than a few calls and speaking with their "gunsmith" I have determined that guy doesn't know anything that a real gunsmith should know. Teresa in the parts department knows way more about the rifles and how thy are made. I believe there rebarrel work is still being farmed out to a private smith.

The Saco Defense rifles had HS Precision stocks and Criterion barrels. After the move to ATEK they switched to Bell and Carlson stocks and later changed to a different manufacturer for their button rifles barrels. Any of the Accumark rifles are fine rifles in my book.

The only mod I found to really up the accuracy was to fully bed the front lug. It needs support under it. The factory trigger will adjust from 6 ounces up to over 4 pounds in the hands of a skilled trigger guy. So far I have found no one makes a better trigger for the Mark 5 than a tuned up Weatherby trigger.

MudRunner,
Before you go lapping that barrel with any sort of grit please try the following. Read Gordy's article on slugging and evaluating rifle bores. "EXTREME ACCURACY INSTITUTE" and "Gordy's Precision" Then slug the barrel. This is something we do on every barrel before we fit it and it is an eye opener. This will tell you if you truly have tight spots. They can be detected no other way without an airgauge. Then report back what you find.

If this is the only way to find out, then I'm curious what could be causing the 3+ places in my bore that would cause a jag and patch to stop moving to the point of I thought I was gonna break a fiberglass J Dewey rod trying to push the jag and patch on through? Cause it sure wasn't copper fouling.

 

[Hired Gun]

Not sure what you could be snagging on. Have you marked your cleaning rod to see if it occurs at the same exact spots each time? I'm having a hard time with this because of the way button rifled barrels are made. A patch over a jag shouldn't fit this tight to be feeling variables less than .001" in size. A patch that is this tight will really vary in pressure down the bore depending on if it has lube or solvent on it or not. It will squeeze out as you go and if you pause it will stick. The amount of friction can go way up just like you are describing.

Any true variables in that barrel should not be more than a tenth (.0001") or two and that would be a bunch to be lapped over or undersized out in the middle anywhere. If anything it should be loose out under the flutes and get tight as you get out from under the flutes. Not all 257's get this. One of mine doe and the other does not. My 300 is much more noticeably. I wish you lived closer because I could have found the exact issue in 45 minutes.

What solvent and brush type are you using? Has the barrel ever seen Barnes X bullets? If you are using ammonia based cleaners and they have ever been in the bore very long could have etched the surface and cause a rough spot. There could be trauma to the bore from removing an obstruction somewhere in it's history. Moly coated bullets and then the bore exposed to rain or high humidity can etch a barrel. Without examining it myself I'm guessing here.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Not sure what you could be snagging on. Have you marked your cleaning rod to see if it occurs at the same exact spots each time? I'm having a hard time with this because of the way button rifled barrels are made. A patch over a jag shouldn't fit this tight to be feeling variables less than .001" in size. A patch that is this tight will really vary in pressure down the bore depending on if it has lube or solvent on it or not. It will squeeze out as you go and if you pause it will stick. The amount of friction can go way up just like you are describing.

Any true variables in that barrel should not be more than a tenth (.0001") or two and that would be a bunch to be lapped over or undersized out in the middle anywhere. If anything it should be loose out under the flutes and get tight as you get out from under the flutes. Not all 257's get this. One of mine doe and the other does not. My 300 is much more noticeably. I wish you lived closer because I could have found the exact issue in 45 minutes.

What solvent and brush type are you using? Has the barrel ever seen Barnes X bullets? If you are using ammonia based cleaners and they have ever been in the bore very long could have etched the surface and cause a rough spot. There could be trauma to the bore from removing an obstruction somewhere in it's history. Moly coated bullets and then the bore exposed to rain or high humidity can etch a barrel. Without examining it myself I'm guessing here.

I am not stopping on purpose...it is stopping itself and I have to force itthrouth the tight spot to the next normal spot. And so-on. I'm not new to guns...I know what cleaning one should be like. Been cleaning them since I was a kid.

I use Pro-Shot Copper Solvent IV and/or RemOil on the patches. Brushes and jags are Pro-Shot.

No, I have never shot Barnes bullets in it. Only Accubonds and Bergers.

No bore trauma, I bought the rifle brand new.

Never been in the rain.

No moly coated bullets.

 

[Hired Gun]

Looks like you have took good care of it. Even the same bullets I use. Did you get a chance to read the slugging article? I could send you a slugging bullet if you want. You will need some brass rods and a sharpie from your local hardware store. Once you have found exactly where the spots start and end then it might shed some light to go over those spots real good with a borescope. Between these two exams you will know if they are tight or rough or something. You might just need a slightly smaller jag. Once we find out what's going on we can try to fix the issue or at least you will have some solid data for Weatherby. They are really slow getting 257 Accumark barrels. I have heard of guys waiting near 2 years. Teresa will know the approximate time.

Or you can just continue to enjoy one of the coolest factory rifles ever made.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Looks like you have took good care of it. Even the same bullets I use. Did you get a chance to read the slugging article? I could send you a slugging bullet if you want. You will need some brass rods and a sharpie from your local hardware store. Once you have found exactly where the spots start and end then it might shed some light to go over those spots real good with a borescope. Between these two exams you will know if they are tight or rough or something. You might just need a slightly smaller jag. Once we find out what's going on we can try to fix the issue or at least you will have some solid data for Weatherby. They are really slow getting 257 Accumark barrels. I have heard of guys waiting near 2 years. Teresa will know the approximate time.

Or you can just continue to enjoy one of the coolest factory rifles ever made.

My smith did the cleaning rod method and scoped it. He was the one who suggested I send it back to Wby.

Apparantly my rifle was made first thing monday morning...Because the barrel is junk, and the trigger is also worse than anything I've ever felt, too...That includes, old war Mausers, old Ruger triggers, and Remington XMP's...

If I send it off, it's probably gonna get a 7mm Wby barrel put on it, as long as it's a 1:9 twist. If not, I'll get them to swap out the internal mag for a longer one and put a .300 Wby barrel on it.

 

[Hired Gun]

A free replacement barrel will be only if it doesn't shoot sub 1 1/2 MOA. I doubt they will change calibers for free. Now you're in the custom shop. Their barrel fitting fee is sky high. Years ago I was quoted over $1200 to replace a barrel with a Krieger. If I was you I would order up a stainless fluted Krieger cut rifled barrel in the proper contour for it in whatever twist you want and have your guy do the work. Be sure to specify the big flutes or you will get the regular little ones. You will get a better job. The bolt travel slot will need extended. The mag box and follower are drop in items that are cheap. The reason to use Krieger is that is the only brand the Weatherby custom shop uses. Keeping it pure will help keep it's value. I would like to buy your take off and any brass you have for it. One of my 257's is cooked.

Being this is Long Range Hunting I was thinking you already had a long range rifle. If not the 300Wby in an Accumark is a great one. A 300 will really rip if you make the barrel a little longer. I have found with a 28" barrel it will run with a 26" 30-378. A Weatherby #4 contour at 30" would be trick. Make look like a long super varmint master. Be sure to Cerakote the flutes black and people will be stopping to check it out everywhere you go.

If you want to call sometime I can talk you through adjusting your trigger to feel like the best trigger you ever felt.

 

[MudRunner2005]

A free replacement barrel will be only if it doesn't shoot sub 1 1/2 MOA. I doubt they will change calibers for free. Now you're in the custom shop. Their barrel fitting fee is sky high. Years ago I was quoted over $1200 to replace a barrel with a Krieger. If I was you I would order up a stainless fluted Krieger cut rifled barrel in the proper contour for it in whatever twist you want and have your guy do the work. Be sure to specify the big flutes or you will get the regular little ones. You will get a better job. The bolt travel slot will need extended. The mag box and follower are drop in items that are cheap. The reason to use Krieger is that is the only brand the Weatherby custom shop uses. Keeping it pure will help keep it's value. I would like to buy your take off and any brass you have for it. One of my 257's is cooked.

Being this is Long Range Hunting I was thinking you already had a long range rifle. If not the 300Wby in an Accumark is a great one. A 300 will really rip if you make the barrel a little longer. I have found with a 28" barrel it will run with a 26" 30-378. A Weatherby #4 contour at 30" would be trick. Make look like a long super varmint master. Be sure to Cerakote the flutes black and people will be stopping to check it out everywhere you go.

If you want to call sometime I can talk you through adjusting your trigger to feel like the best trigger you ever felt.

I just want Weatherby to own up to their mistake, without me having to get ugly... A rifle that expensive should have better quality control standards when it comes to checking things out before it gets boxed up. I'm not trying to get anything free...I just want what I ORIGINALLY paid for. I paid for an Accumark, and with handloads, the best this gun will do is 3/4", maybe a 5/8" group.... Maybe its time Weatherby rethinks their standards of accuracy. I have no accuracy guarantee factory Remington 700's that will shoot .2-.3" or better with handloads.

I shouldn't have to spend $800+ rebarreling a rifle that has less than 200 rounds down it, because the manufacturer won't admit that it's screwed up. I know it's screwed up, my smith knows it's screwed up, and he doesn't have any reason to lie or overexaggerate...It's not like he's getting a dime from this. Hell, he's the one who suggested I send it back to Weatherby.

I own quite a few LR rifles, and have for many years.

 

[Hired Gun]

Rethink their accuracy standard? It's a hunting rifle. Your rifle is shooting better than even the upcharge Sub MOA and the Range Certified optioned rifles. What can you do with a 1/4 MOA rifle that you can't with a 3/4 MOA rifle? The 257 is a 600 yard round. Are you missing 600 yard game due to a 1 1/2" variance from point of aim? In good conditions that rifle is capable of hitting a clay pigeon every time at 600 yards. I'm certain is no shortage of guys who would be glad to take it off your hands for more than you actually paid for it.

Why the public bashing every chance you get? Your oversized jag is sticking? Your trigger needs cleaned and adjusted? Really, that's it? Have you ever personally received poor customer service from Weatherby? I think you at least owe them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I have tried to help you out best I can. Good luck to you.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Rethink their accuracy standard? It's a hunting rifle. Your rifle is shooting better than even the upcharge Sub MOA and the Range Certified optioned rifles. What can you do with a 1/4 MOA rifle that you can't with a 3/4 MOA rifle? The 257 is a 600 yard round. Are you missing 600 yard game due to a 1 1/2" variance from point of aim? In good conditions that rifle is capable of hitting a clay pigeon every time at 600 yards. I'm certain is no shortage of guys who would be glad to take it off your hands for more than you actually paid for it.

Why the public bashing every chance you get? Your oversized jag is sticking? Your trigger needs cleaned and adjusted? Really, that's it? Have you ever personally received poor customer service from Weatherby? I think you at least owe them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I have tried to help you out best I can. Good luck to you.

My offer still stands to purchase it or trade for it.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Rethink their accuracy standard? It's a hunting rifle. Your rifle is shooting better than even the upcharge Sub MOA and the Range Certified optioned rifles. What can you do with a 1/4 MOA rifle that you can't with a 3/4 MOA rifle? The 257 is a 600 yard round. Are you missing 600 yard game due to a 1 1/2" variance from point of aim? In good conditions that rifle is capable of hitting a clay pigeon every time at 600 yards. I'm certain is no shortage of guys who would be glad to take it off your hands for more than you actually paid for it.

Why the public bashing every chance you get? Your oversized jag is sticking? Your trigger needs cleaned and adjusted? Really, that's it? Have you ever personally received poor customer service from Weatherby? I think you at least owe them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

I have tried to help you out best I can. Good luck to you.

Shoot a 1/2 MOA tighter group...

As a consumer I try to give every company the benefit of the doubt. But when the name of your weapon is "Accumark" (representing superb accuracy you will get from this particular model of firearm) as a pinnacle above their standard Mark V and Vanguard lines, it should produce better accuracy results.

Apparantly our 2 opinions of accuracy differ. Which is understandable. My opinion is, if a gun can't produce sub-MOA groups, it is not worth owning. I believe it was Townsend Whelen who said, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." I find that to be true. Who wants to shoot an inacurate gun. Half the fun of reloading and shooting is to see how good you can get your groups. I am not just a hunter, but a bench shooting enthusiest as well. I don't shoot comps, but I like to compete against myself (if that makes sense).

I think you are getting frustrated simply because we have a different opinions on the matter. You might look at it more from a hunting standpoint, but I look at it from an OCD trigger-jockey standpoint. I want every rifle I own to be as accurate as humanly possible. And when you try everything you know, and it still doesn't produce the results you want, and your professional gunsmith examines the whole gun, scopes the bore, and then tells you it's got a bad barrel on it, then you have 3 options (from my standpoint)... Send it back to the manufacturer to get it looked over and hopefully whatever they do to fix it helps, keep it and sink a bunch more money in it to rebarrel it, or cut your losses, time, and effort and sell it, and go buy something else to tinker with.

I've weighed them all out. If Weatherby gives me as much crap about this as you have, and assumes I'm a moron who doesn't know anything about guns, then it's not worth me shipping the **** thing off, waiting for 6+ months to hear back from them just to say, "Oh well, it shot 1.5", so there's nothing we can do for you..." or "Sorry, you shot handloads through it, so your warranty is void..." Nope, not going to put myself through that crap. I'm now to the point of either 1) rebarreling it, or 2) selling it or trading it for another Sendero + cash, or a NF scope.

Sure, I'll be glad to sell it for more than I paid for it. Wanna buy it?

 

[Hired Gun]

I think I have a pretty good feel for what accuracy levels to expect.

I sold a brand new 257 Accumark to a Alaskan fishing guide with a new VX3 4-14x50 on it about 3 weeks ago. We mounted the scope and boresighted it. These are 1" stickies. We just cleaned at took it out. With Nosler 110 Accubond factory ammo clocking 3400 here is how it shot. If I bedded it and tuned the trigger I bet these would cut in half. Kind of looks a lot like yours. I sold this one for $1650 out the door. What are you asking for yours?

Factory hunting rifle accuracy.





"Full custom action custom rifle accuracy."
My personal custom 338 Lapua work up loads with me shooting it. 3 of these are 2 grains apart. The big group is the paper got wet and blew out. 300 grain Bergers with Retumbo. 2850fps.



"Rebarreled factory action accuracy." I have better if I were to dig a little.
Customers targets shot by him. 270 Wby work up loads.


"Trued up Remington 700 rebarreled, Braked, Pillar bedded, Jewel trigger and Cerakoted accuracy."
He send me targets like this all the time.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Unfortunately, my Accumark groups only look that good with handloads. Factory ammo is not its best friend. 1.5-2.0" at 100 with factory ammo. It shot them good at first, but it's like as the barrel has broke in, it has gotten progressively worse every year. I wouldn't trust factory loads accuracy much beyond 200 yards (in my rifle), judging by the way it shoots at 100, because a possible 4" in shot placement variation can be the difference in bloodtrailing and bang-flop. At 300 yards that could be up to 6" in POI shift. I don't want to risk possibly maming an animal or making an inhumane shot that causes them to suffer, just because I'm ok with my rifle's lackluster performance, that I was aware of beforehand. Even my sporter barreled 7Mag deer rifle shoots 1/2-3/4" average groups at 100 with my handloads.

The jag is not the issue, because it works fine in my .25-06 AI bore. Runs smooth and true with the same patches and solvent.

I'm really not trying to argue with you or be difficult...But I feel you seem to have little belief that Weatherby could be at fault here, and that I'm the one to blame, somehow.

I get it, you love Weatherbys. That's cool. I love Remington 700's, but you'll NEVER hear me say that I don't believe they've ever let a lemon slip out the door...Because it's well-known they have. Same with every other manufacturer. Anything man-made can have lemons or defects.