Any bad experiences with 175 gr Berger Elite Hunters on Elk

[TX Fiddler]

I've only killed four bulls; 1 with a 7x57 and a 154 gr. Hornady, and the others with a 35 Whelen, one 225 gr. Nosler Partition, the other two 225 gr. Barnes TSX. Been present when two other were killed by my pop, one with a 338-06 and the other with a 35 Whelen. Although my Whelen is a very accurate rifle with my hunting loads, I never felt sub-MOA groups necessary when shooting at animals the size of motorcycles. Rather I prefer a tough bullet that penetrates, thus I prefer the TSX.

 

[dogz]

Ranges of your shots Tx Fiddler?

 

[TX Fiddler]

Ranges of your shots Tx Fiddler?

The bull shot with the 7x57, I don't know how far (it was over 30 years ago), across Bonito Canyon in the San Juan Wilderness of Colorado, it was a long, lucky shot (154 gr. Hornady). Another bull at about 75 yds. that I jumped out of an aspen thicket and shot running while he was quartering away (225 gr. Partition, unimpressive penetration). Another at a lasered 360 yd. quartering away, entered high behind the right shoulder, exited low neck on off-side (225 gr. TSX). Another at 50-75 yds. broadside, TSX again, but at that range a .243 and a 100 gr. bullet probably would've worked.
I guided my dad on a couple of elk hunts and he killed two bulls, both with the 35 Whelen. The first was with my rifle/load and the TSX. Due to the situation, he had the shoot the bull square in the rectal orifice at around 100 yds. The bullet penetrated into the neck of the rather large 6x6 where we recovered it. That one instance and the fact that they've been ridiculously accurate is what sold me on TSX's

The last one he killed was also with a Whelen but in timber at a bit under 50 yds. This time he had loaded a 250 gr. Speer SP which, for the caliber and style is a very streamlined bullet. But it SUCKS for large game, made a mess.

Entrance wound-

Offside shoulder-

What was left of the bullet-

So, based on my limited experience hunting elk, I choose a bullet that above all penetrates well.

 

[stazmania]

The bull shot with the 7x57, I don't know how far (it was over 30 years ago), across Bonito Canyon in the San Juan Wilderness of Colorado, it was a long, lucky shot (154 gr. Hornady). Another bull at about 75 yds. that I jumped out of an aspen thicket and shot running while he was quartering away (225 gr. Partition, unimpressive penetration). Another at a lasered 360 yd. quartering away, entered high behind the right shoulder, exited low neck on off-side (225 gr. TSX). Another at 50-75 yds. broadside, TSX again, but at that range a .243 and a 100 gr. bullet probably would've worked.
I guided my dad on a couple of elk hunts and he killed two bulls, both with the 35 Whelen. The first was with my rifle/load and the TSX. Due to the situation, he had the shoot the bull square in the rectal orifice at around 100 yds. The bullet penetrated into the neck of the rather large 6x6 where we recovered it. That one instance and the fact that they've been ridiculously accurate is what sold me on TSX's

View attachment 643239 View attachment 643240

The last one he killed was also with a Whelen but in timber at a bit under 50 yds. This time he had loaded a 250 gr. Speer SP which, for the caliber and style is a very streamlined bullet. But it SUCKS for large game, made a mess.

Entrance wound- View attachment 643241

Offside shoulder- View attachment 643242

What was left of the bullet- View attachment 643243

So, based on my limited experience hunting elk, I choose a bullet that above all penetrates well.

Good job explaining your choice of bullet. This is the kind of post that can help newbies understand what is available to them. That said I like cup and core mostly nosler. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to dispute your choice.

 

[TX Fiddler]

Good job explaining your choice of bullet. This is the kind of post that can help newbies understand what is available to them. That said I like cup and core mostly nosler. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to dispute your choice.

Thanks. I feel premium hunting bullets really offer three choices - The bonded core bullets with heavy-ish jackets such as Accubonds et al that when expanded offer a nice, large frontal area and a large wound channel when they expand. The grain-for-grain trade off is reduced penetration. The other end of the spectrum is bullets such as TSX's that typically have less frontal area/more narrow would channel when they expand, but penetrate more deeply. Then there are the partition type such as Nosler Partitions that are something of a compromise between the two aforementioned types.
I'm mostly a handgun hunter these days and I hunt solely with my own cast bullets, is SWC form, mostly solid, but some with HP's. Even at relatively low velocities (900-1100 fps) it's almost impossible to recover a solid SWC from anything other than tough old boars whose skin is crazy thick around their shoulders and over their ribs. In all the deer I've shot with handguns I've recovered exactly one solid and only because it was a steep raking shot in which the bullet traveled from the left flank to the juncture of the neck and right shoulder. OTOH I've recovered every cast HP I've fired into game. They typically have large, pretty mushrooms but are easily stopped by the offside hide. (If you can't tell, I love digging bullets out of game and studying them)

Anyhow, I am probably overlooking some latest, greatest bullet designs as I don't pay much attention to the market anymore because I've found what works for me. I'm a penetration guy because when we're hunting we usually have to take the shot we're presented which isn't always a nice broadside shot requiring little penetration. I would never hunt with target bullets such as Bergers, but I know people must use them successfully or the market wouldn't support them.

And yes, someone with more experience on the subject will come along and disagree with me, but that's OK.

 

[dogz]

Thanks for the response Tx Fidler-looks like you've taken a few mainly with the Whelen (great round by the way) which is a wonderful round. I've got a 338/06 (same critter) that we use when we're sure we'll not being going past 400. And in some country or on some private land we have that luxury.

I love those big old bullets slugging along @ 2500-2700! The blood trail that the 250 Noz part leaves is amazing! I love tracking elk in the timber with some new snow and the wind just right.

Course the question at hand was the 175 Berg...

Tons of different ways to hunt elk, guided, on your own, public, private, Limited Entry and so on. Good thing is that it makes for lots of different discussions eh. This also brings us to there are a lot of places where one can shoot at short ranges and one can go for a heck of a long ways. Which is of course what the 175 is built for.

I do find it interesting that you didn't like the 250 Speer SP, a friend of mine from this area uses a 350 RM and that bullet or the 250 Horn SP and positively dotes on them. He's mainly taking his elk sub 200 yds, and a lot of them in the timber.

But like I've always said, use a bullet long enough and sooner or later one will see something that makes them go hmm........

 

[TX Fiddler]

Thanks for the response Tx Fidler-looks like you've taken a few mainly with the Whelen (great round by the way) which is a wonderful round. I've got a 338/06 (same critter) that we use when we're sure we'll not being going past 400. And in some country or on some private land we have that luxury.

I love those big old bullets slugging along @ 2500-2700! The blood trail that the 250 Noz part leaves is amazing! I love tracking elk in the timber with some new snow and the wind just right.

Course the question at hand was the 175 Berg...

Tons of different ways to hunt elk, guided, on your own, public, private, Limited Entry and so on. Good thing is that it makes for lots of different discussions eh. This also brings us to there are a lot of places where one can shoot at short ranges and one can go for a heck of a long ways. Which is of course what the 175 is built for.

I do find it interesting that you didn't like the 250 Speer SP, a friend of mine from this area uses a 350 RM and that bullet or the 250 Horn SP and positively dotes on them. He's mainly taking his elk sub 200 yds, and a lot of them in the timber.

But like I've always said, use a bullet long enough and sooner or later one will see something that makes them go hmm........

The blood trail from the 250 gr. pictured above was like nothing I've ever seen before or since. Literally, it looked like it came from a 5/8" water hose. As to that .358" 250 gr. Speer, those were older bullets, probably from the '70's, and they were probably designed to be fired from rounds such as the .358 Winchester. It wouldn't surprise me if Speer haven't toughened up the bullets.

All of our elk hunts were DIY, mostly in northern NM. On the evening I made the 360 yd. shot, before that bull showed up, I watched two bulls saunter out across the head of the canyon at a lasered 610 yds. They sparred for a couple of minutes, ate a bit and wandered back into the timber.

I knew how to hold for a shot that far, but with the constantly shifting winds that high up (~11,000'), I just took pictures and enjoyed.