Annealing 101

@J E Custom, useful video, thanks for posting.
While you say impurities, I'd suspect the flame luminosity change (the orange flame glow) is due to surface oxidation of the zinc in the brass. Since the secondary combustion zone of the flame is impinging on the brass, as the brass heats up, it changes the chemical process of combustion, which can also cause some of the luminosity.
If you were able to adjust the mix of your torches to give you an orange flame (fuel rich), you would oxidize your brass less.
A good article discussing brass annealing can be found at https://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing

I am not in a hurry to produce ammo faster when I reload. While I would love an automated annealer, it has never been important enough to justify the expense.
Annealing isn't hard - just like everything we do in reloading, it requires attention to detail.
If you want to try annealing, here's what has worked for me over the last 10 years. To start annealing your brass, here's what you need:
  • cordless drill
  • 1/8th or 3/16Ø rod, approximately 6-8" long - preferably stainless, with no coating/paint.
  • Propane torch (in good condition).
  • Fire extinguisher handy.
  • helps to have a bucket of water. You're not quenching the brass, you're just making it easy to handle. Grab a hot piece of brass and you'll know why.
I anneal my brass after inspection but before I have deprimed or tumbled it. Here's my method.
  1. Set up your work area so you're comfortable. For gosh's sake, no powder anywhere near you. Ensure the propane torch is stable, and in the event you knock it over, nothing around you is going to get ignited. i.e. don't anneal around stacks of paper.
  2. Chuck up rod. Have your brass and bucket arranged so the motion is fluid. Put brass on rod, anneal, tip rod down so brass falls into bucket, tip rod up to place another piece. All without burning yourself.
  3. Annealing:
    1. To get the hang of it, since most reloaders have a culled/reject brass pile, practice on these.
    2. Do this in low light. The indirect light from a desk lamp, for example. When you are looking at your brass in the flame, you want the flame to be the brightest object in your view, and the background dark.
    3. A burner flame has multiple parts. There's the bright blue tip, then you can see a light blue corona above that. You want to hold the brass at the tip of the corona. The point of the corona should be hitting the brass at approximately mid shoulder. This results in slower heating but more consistent heat transfer. If you move your brass into the corona area, you can see the corona flow around the brass.
    4. Why you hold the flame at approximately mid shoulder: the heat flows in both directions. There is a lot less mass at the neck and case mouth, hence it heats up much faster than the body. You'll get the hang of it, but ultimately you want optimal heat distribution from case mouth down to the bottom of the shoulder.
    5. I anneal my brass to approximately 800°F, where the brass will start to radiate. It doesn't have a color at this point, but the reflectivity of the brass changes where it becomes a black body radiation object, meaning giving off its own light.
    6. Tip the drill, dropping the brass into the bucket. Repeat....
    7. If I start to see the brass glow the very dull red, which indicates I've hit ~950°F, This is still good.
When I have done my job correctly, the bullet seating step of reloading the cartridge has a very consistent force application. If you play with the old calibrated needle torque wrenches, you know what I mean.
Still, the above method is knuckle-dragger stuff. The one benchrest competitor I know has much more sophisticated equipment, like an Amp Annealer. If he has inconsistent annealing, he will see it in variations of the force gauge on his inline press.

Here's a color heat chart for reference:
1592378143793.png
 
Thanks JE. Saw this video awhile back. He seems to have a good handle on the process. When I started annealing, I used Templaq and a metronome app on my phone to get the time down. Once I got the timing down, I didn't need the Templaq any more and would document the time count for those cases for future reference. Usually only took several cases and cleaning those few wasn't so bad as having to do them all.
 
@J E Custom, useful video, thanks for posting.
While you say impurities, I'd suspect the flame luminosity change (the orange flame glow) is due to surface oxidation of the zinc in the brass. Since the secondary combustion zone of the flame is impinging on the brass, as the brass heats up, it changes the chemical process of combustion, which can also cause some of the luminosity.
If you were able to adjust the mix of your torches to give you an orange flame (fuel rich), you would oxidize your brass less.
A good article discussing brass annealing can be found at https://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing

I am not in a hurry to produce ammo faster when I reload. While I would love an automated annealer, it has never been important enough to justify the expense.
Annealing isn't hard - just like everything we do in reloading, it requires attention to detail.
If you want to try annealing, here's what has worked for me over the last 10 years. To start annealing your brass, here's what you need:
  • cordless drill
  • 1/8th or 3/16Ø rod, approximately 6-8" long - preferably stainless, with no coating/paint.
  • Propane torch (in good condition).
  • Fire extinguisher handy.
  • helps to have a bucket of water. You're not quenching the brass, you're just making it easy to handle. Grab a hot piece of brass and you'll know why.
I anneal my brass after inspection but before I have deprimed or tumbled it. Here's my method.
  1. Set up your work area so you're comfortable. For gosh's sake, no powder anywhere near you. Ensure the propane torch is stable, and in the event you knock it over, nothing around you is going to get ignited. i.e. don't anneal around stacks of paper.
  2. Chuck up rod. Have your brass and bucket arranged so the motion is fluid. Put brass on rod, anneal, tip rod down so brass falls into bucket, tip rod up to place another piece. All without burning yourself.
  3. Annealing:
    1. To get the hang of it, since most reloaders have a culled/reject brass pile, practice on these.
    2. Do this in low light. The indirect light from a desk lamp, for example. When you are looking at your brass in the flame, you want the flame to be the brightest object in your view, and the background dark.
    3. A burner flame has multiple parts. There's the bright blue tip, then you can see a light blue corona above that. You want to hold the brass at the tip of the corona. The point of the corona should be hitting the brass at approximately mid shoulder. This results in slower heating but more consistent heat transfer. If you move your brass into the corona area, you can see the corona flow around the brass.
    4. Why you hold the flame at approximately mid shoulder: the heat flows in both directions. There is a lot less mass at the neck and case mouth, hence it heats up much faster than the body. You'll get the hang of it, but ultimately you want optimal heat distribution from case mouth down to the bottom of the shoulder.
    5. I anneal my brass to approximately 800°F, where the brass will start to radiate. It doesn't have a color at this point, but the reflectivity of the brass changes where it becomes a black body radiation object, meaning giving off its own light.
    6. Tip the drill, dropping the brass into the bucket. Repeat....
    7. If I start to see the brass glow the very dull red, which indicates I've hit ~950°F, This is still good.
When I have done my job correctly, the bullet seating step of reloading the cartridge has a very consistent force application. If you play with the old calibrated needle torque wrenches, you know what I mean.
Still, the above method is knuckle-dragger stuff. The one benchrest competitor I know has much more sophisticated equipment, like an Amp Annealer. If he has inconsistent annealing, he will see it in variations of the force gauge on his inline press.

Here's a color heat chart for reference:
View attachment 199078

👍
Adjusting the flame length and color is very important and part of the set up that needs attention.
Also in building my own machine, I discovered that the small propane bottles normally used, loose vapor pressure and that changes the flame intensity/temperature, and had to go to a 20 pound tank to get a consistent flame temperature. (Needed when using an automatic machine).

When doing annealing by hand, it is not that important because you can adjust the heat input by time and distance. I used to do all of my annealing by hand, but wanted the most consistency so I decided to make the annealer where time and temperature would be consistent. Don;t know if it effects accuracy but I knew it couldn't hurt.

Since doing annealing this way, I haven't lost/ruined a single piece of brass and bullet tension has been very consistent.

To me time is not as important as quality in anything i do for accuracy and if i can eliminate the human error/factor, I will.

J E CUSTOM
 
But you then have to anneal for longer @600F than you do @750F & if not timed right then it could still just as easily be over annealed imo.


Being an old/x welder and being taught how to adjust the flame for max temperature without oxidizing the material and keeping the flame at the proper distance from the work, has helped to set up the machine to get the maximum benefit of less time and fuel used. the location of the flame on the case is also important. and minimum time in the flame as you stated, to reach the desired temperature has produced the best results for me also.

I want the case to reach 600+degrees fast to prevent annealing any more case than just past the body shoulder junction and then quench to stop the process. The next time I set up to anneal, I will video the process an post it. everyone has their way of annealing and this is just what works best for me.

J E CUSTOM
 
Part of any good reloading process is Annealing, unfortunately If done improperly It can ruin accuracy and worse, the cases. Many over anneal there brass when first starting out, I was guilty like most until I saw the effects of poorly annealed brass and ran Brinell hardness test of some of the cases.

Here Is a good description of how it should be done regardless of the method you may use. The end results are what counts.

A few tips I found useful that might help.
I found that Temp sensitive paint required a Mach speed reaction and was hard to remove and relied on interpretation. so I tried a Laser temp gauge and found it very reliable.

The color change/lack of, works good if you can be consistent or have a timed system.

I finally built a timed system so I didn't have to rely on my reflexes and vision to get it right. While setting up the annealing machine, I recommend setting it fast and slowing it down until proper annealing time is reached. Under annealed cases can be reintroduced into the process for correct annealing. The over annealed cases will be destroyed and should be thrown away.

Proper annealing will make the brass cases last for a long time and consistent annealing can/does improve accuracy/consistency.



J E CUSTOM

JE all very informative, thanks ! What Laser Temp Gauge do you use ?
 
Dip annealing is the best.
It's also relatively cheap & Impossible to screw up.
You set the correct temperature as measured and read on a meter, dip the cases, done.
No worries about timing,, it don't matter with dip annealing, because you're applying the heat both inside and outside of thin cases. And since at the correct temp, which is sufficient and yet below full anneal, you could leave a case at dip all day long without causing full anneal (ruining cases).
No way to get it wrong, nor to do it inconsistently.
What is "dip annealing"? I would like to learn more about this as it sounds like it is fool proof. Thanks
 
What are your thoughts on the Annie induction annealer? Anyone use it? That's what I've been eyeballing as a more economical alternative to the AMP...
 
I run at 600o f to stay away from over annealing. 700 to 750 C is on the edge and very easy to ruin brass. annealing temperature is a time/temperature process and depending how long the cases stay in the flame determines the level of anneal produced.

With time, anything over 450o C will anneal but to much time and you will anneal most of the case body even at those low temps. I recommend polishing some old brass and depending on how you anneal, start fast/low and work up to find the right temp for yours.

I also recommend the water quench to terminate the process instantly.

J E CUSTOM
You may want to change those Celcius to Fahrenheit, 750°C is just shy of 1400°F and plenty able to ruin brass cartridge cases for their intended purpose.
 
What are your thoughts on the Annie induction annealer? Anyone use it? That's what I've been eyeballing as a more economical alternative to the AMP...
I had asked the same question couple of months ago for anyone experience and got nothing back. Just by online research it looks to be the next best thing for an induction annealer, I have not purchased one, to know how well it works, but it does seem fairly fast and if you rig up a cooling system should have no issues with overheating.
 
It's just AMP marketing, and a desperate malicious kind really.
AMP attacked salt bath dipping based on it's inability to FULLY anneal. Thing is, we never ever want to FULL anneal our brass. We stress relieve(process anneal) only, which dip annealing works perfect for.
Only brass manufacturers would fully anneal (some, potentially with an inductive process, most with flame), and only prior to forming.
So for reloaders (who are not fully annealing), AMP system must anneal less, so they roll into the delicate attachment/timing science -to make brass meet a hardness of new Lapua.
That's fine,, but super expensive to pull off, and less versatile about different desired annealing depths (neck only, shoulder, x-amount of body length, etc.).

Bottom line; AMP won't be able to compete with way cheaper dip annealing.
 
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Read it….. would have more credibility if it was produced by an independent source.
Agreed. I have not followed their marketing campaigns. There is no question they have an interest in validating the superiority of their system over other annealing methods, but at the cost differential, and the safety factor, I'd much prefer a flame system over salt bath any day.
While I thought their virgin case hardness numbers seemed eerily similar, I still accepted them on face value. If I had a vickers hardness tester, I'd run my own experiment here.
 
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